• What JGIG Is:

    Joyfully Growing In Grace engages in an examination of beliefs found in the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism, and Netzarim streams of thought and related sects.

    The term “Messianic” is generally understood to describe Jews who have come to believe in Yeshua/Jesus as their Messiah. Jews who are believers in Jesus/Yeshua typically call themselves Jewish/Hebrew Christians or simply, Christians.

    Many Christians meet folks who say they are ‘Messianic’ and assume that those folks are Jewish Christians. Most aren’t Jewish at all, but are Gentile Christians who have chosen to pursue Torah observance and have adopted the Messianic term, calling themselves Messianic Christians, adherents to Messianic Judaism, or simply, Messianics. Some will even try to avoid that label and say that they are followers of "The Way".

    These Gentiles (and to be fair, some Messianic Jews) preach Torah observance/pursuance for Christians, persuading many believers that the Christianity of the Bible is a false religion and that we must return to the faith of the first century sect of Judaism that they say Yeshua (Jesus Christ) embraced. According to them, once you become aware that you should be 'keeping' the edicts and regulations of Mosaic Covenant Law, if you do not, you are then in willful disobedience to God.

    It has been my observation that Christians who adopt the label of Messianic identify more with the tenets of Judaism than they do with the tenets of Christianity. Many reject the label of Christian altogether and some eventually even convert to Judaism.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 says, "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil."

    Joyfully Growing in Grace examines the methods, claims, and fruits of the Hebrew Roots Movement, Messianic Judaism, and Netzarim streams of thought and related, law-keeping sects.

    To borrow from a Forrest Gump quote, “Law ‘keepers’ are like a box of chocolates - ya never know what you’re gonna get!” The goal of JGIG is to be a resource to help those affected by the Torah pursuant movements to try and sort out what they’re dealing with. Make use of the tabs with drop-down menus found at the top of this site – there’s tons of info there, and it’s very navigable.

    Be sure to click on the many embedded links within the posts here - there's lots of additional and related information for you to access that way, as well.

    Welcome, and may God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.

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The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended

(Edited and expanded 7/9/13)  In the last several months the Law of Christ has become clearer for me.  Not that I haven’t necessarily understood what is the Law of Christ, but expressing that understanding has been challenging, especially when in a discussion with those who believe that we, as believers in Christ, are commanded by God to keep Mosaic Covenant Law.

In those discussions, I’ve been privileged to contend alongside some wonderful brothers and sisters in the Lord and have learned much from their perspectives.  A few are just Christians like me, some are learned students of the Word, a few are former adherents to the Hebrew Roots Movement/Messianic Judaism belief system(s), and a few are Jewish Christians, whose concise use of and perspective from the Scriptures I’ve found to be a real blessing.  None of those above distinctions are mutually exclusive, by the way . . . as all of the above have a wonderful love for the simplicity of the Gospel while understanding and being able to communicate the more intricate aspects of the Word.

This post by no means contains an exhaustive listing of the Scriptures referring to the Law of Christ, but rather a compilation of those Scriptures that have kind of tied it all together for me as I and others have engaged in discussions with Law keepers and with each other.

The words of Christ, coupled with His revelations to the Apostles and the Apostles’ instructions to and teaching of the early Body of Christ regarding Grace and Law, clearly describe what our relationship with Mosaic Covenant Law is in Christ, after the Cross.

The Law of Christ Defined
Understand that when a Law keeper refers to God’s commandments they are referring to Mosaic Covenant Law.  Those who adhere to the keeping of that Law believe that when Jesus says, “If you love me, keep My commandments”, that means keeping  Mosaic Covenant Law.  And we’re not just talkin’ the ‘Big Ten’, but also the ‘Jots and Tittles’.  Why they pick that covenant law over, say Noahide Covenant law I’m not sure, but it may have to do with their view of believers actually becoming Israel and as such being subject to all of the the Laws given to Her, but that’s another post entirely.

If conversing with a Law keeper about Law and Grace, one is likely to hear, So those who are born again can just do as they please?  I wonder why Jesus said we have to obey God’s commandments?”   This is a valid question and often rooted in the idea that many in the Body of Christ hold to what some term a ‘Greasy Grace’, thinking that if they place their faith in Jesus Christ, whatever they do is ‘covered’ by the Grace of God.  (See also Grace or Law?  How Then, Shall We Live? and Hebrew Roots Movement – Man’s Righteousness or God’s Righteousness?)

Is the Body of Christ commanded to keep edicts, regulations, and days, or are issues of morality and spiritual fruits and service – those things which are fulfilled by love, which is a Fruit of the Spirit, not a performance of the Law – instructed to the Body of Christ?  Can you think of any commands to the Body of Christ about Feast keeping or the keeping of the seventh-day Sabbath or dietary laws in the New Testament?  Are edicts and regulations and ceremonial laws really commanded to the Body of Christ?

Law keepers will tell you that Mosaic Covenant Law was assumed to be adhered to by early believers.  According to them, that was never a question for first century believers, and that in fact, early believers were really ‘a Judaism’ that functioned largely as they did for hundreds of years under Mosaic Covenant Law.  In the Law-keeping paradigm, anything that Jesus did via the work of the Cross and the obvious differences in the practices and customs of the Body of Christ is minimized, though Jesus’ teachings to those under the Law and before the Work of the Cross is maximized.

A  favorite reference that Law keepers use in regard to the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law is:

Matthew 5:17-20
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Taking that passage in isolation, one could make a case for the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law for believers, because, as anyone in a Law keeping sect worth their salt will tell you, you can plainly see that the earth is still here, isn’t it?  And looking around Shifty, you would have to agree, that yes indeed, the earth has not disappeared.  Well that settles it then!  The Law is for believers today!  And to be called great in the kingdom of heaven, you must teach these commands to others.

That conclusion, however, takes leaps over information about events that had not yet happened (the Cross, Resurrection and Ascension, implementing the New Covenant in Christ, and the consequent indwelling of the Holy Spirit for those in Christ) and inspired Scriptures written to the Body of Christ which did not yet exist.

From a thread on the Messianic Judaism forum at CARM:

Originally Posted by ‘Ben David’ (A Jewish believer who believes that all are bound by Mosaic Covenant Law, aka ‘One Law Theology’):

Why is it achoti, that all you christian [sic] when you want to make a point of the Torah go straight to Paul? why not go to yeshua, as I pointed to you? (Matt. 5:17-20). Where did Yeshua say that anybody, Jew or gentile have died to the Torah? Yet you want us to believe that Paul, who in everyone of his Epistles started with “I Paul, an Apostle and a bond servant of Yeshua….” was teaching against his Master? In your interpretation of the teachings of Paul, you are making him a lier [sic], and a renegade…you need to learn how to reconcile Paul’s writing to Yeshua’s teaching. so far, unfortunately, You are failing miserably…

You are also illogical, but that is for later….

Blessings
Dan

And a response from ‘CIAN’, a Jewish Christian who believes that believers are not mandated as believers to keep Mosaic Covenant Law:

Dan,
Here’s what Yeshua said to His Israeli talmudim shortly before the cross, “I have many more things to tell you, but YOU CANNOT BEAR THEM NOW.  But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine & will disclose it to you.” John 16:12-14…

Sadly, there are yet those among us Jewish disciples who STILL CANNOT BEAR to hear the teachings of Messiah revealed by Ruach HaKodesh through His Apostles which He did NOT DISCLOSE BEFORE the crucifixion <:-(

— CIAN

Indeed the Holy Spirit would reveal much to the Body of Christ through the Apostles, and Jesus Himself began preparing the way for the Law of Christ in John 15.  Let’s break it down:

John 15:9-17
9″As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my [God the Son’s] commands , you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s [God the Father’s] commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

12My [God the Son’s]  command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 17This is my [God the Son’s] command: Love each other.

Jesus’ command is what?  Let’s look at it in the King James Version:

John 15:12 “This is my [God the Son’s] commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.”

Notice that Jesus didn’t say, “Keep the Law as I have kept the Law.”  Jesus’ command is Love, not Law.

Reinforced again in verse 17:

John 15:17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

That is the Law of Christ!  Clarity is such a wonderful thing .  You’re looking at the beautiful simplicity that is in Christ.

The Law of Christ Defended
“But wait!”
those in the Law keeping sects will wail, “Jesus would NEVER preach against the Law or He would be a false prophet and could not be the Messiah!”  Wow.  I guess they got us there . . . or do they?  Why is it that Jesus would have to ‘preach against the Law’ to establish the Law of Christ?  Does the Law of Christ in any way contradict Mosaic Covenant Law?  Are there not different covenants established by God throughout history?  The Law keeper will say, “God never changes!”   Agreed!  But clearly God’s covenants DO.

And what about that ‘until the heavens and earth pass away’ bit?  If the earth is still here, the Law must be too, right?  Right.  How can it be that the Law hasn’t passed away, and yet we who are the Body of Christ are no longer ‘under the Law’?

Also from CIAN:

Achi, Jews who DIE are no longer obligated to perform the binding mitzvot of Torah — The Law of Moses does NOT die, but those under its mandatory requirements DO die, and are thereby released from their bounden duty to fulfill its deeds…

Zephania [another poster at CARM] asked me if Scripture says that believers (Jewish and/or Goyish [Gentiles]) are to walk as Messiah did — In regard to Judeo-specific Torah observance, the answer is NO because although Yeshua was born a Jew under the Law, He DIED to its obligations on the cross & through our spiritual union with Him in His DEATH and resurrection, so have ALL believers been released from any “til death do us part” burden of bar mitzvah in Him as well, whether we were born Jews OR Gentiles in the flesh:

“For while we WERE in the FLESH, the sinful passions which were aroused by the LAW were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for DEATH … However, you are NOT in the FLESH but in the Spirit” (Romans 7:5 & Rom.8:9)

I never teach against endeavoring to walk in a Torah observant lifestyle (!!!) but I always point out that G-d no longer mandates such for believing Jews, let alone for Gentiles IN Messiah Yeshua <:-)

— CIAN 

 Dead people are no longer under Law.

Romans 6:1-7
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Romans 7:4-6
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

We die to sin, and live in Christ:

Romans 6:8-14
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.   

Yes!

There is no instruction there about observing Mosaic Covenant Law . . . because sin is no longer our master, we are dead to sin in Christ!  And if we are dead to sin, then we are no longer under law.  And our spirit has been made “alive to God in Christ Jesus”!  Jesus didn’t come to make Law breakers into Law keepers, He came to make spiritually dead people into spiritually alive people!

Romans 10:1-4
1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
   

Does the Law still exist?  Absolutely.  Is it still upheld?  Yes.  The Law shows the unbeliever their sin and points them to Christ. That is the proper use of the Law.  Once one believes, Christ is the end of the Law for the believer.

Romans 3:21-25
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. 

This next part almost seems to contradict itself if you don’t remember that those who are in Christ have a different relationship with the Law than those who are not in Christ:

Romans 3:27-31
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

And for those who are in Christ love fulfills the Law:

Romans 13:8-10
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

(For more on this, see Grace or Law?  How Then, Shall We Live?)

Like in so many other places instructing the Body of Christ, it seems that if the edicts and regulations of the Law given at Sinai were to be ‘kept’, Romans 13 would have been a really good place to mention it.  Instead we see yet another reinforcement that love is what we are commanded, and that love is the fulfillment of the law.

It is in Christ, not the Law, in Whom we move forward after the Cross. That fact is abundantly evident all throughout the Scriptures written to the Body of Christ.  I’ve had a hard time narrowing down the passages to share in this post because there are so many, praise God, but here’s one really good one:

Colossians 2:6-7
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.   

Law keepers will try to tell you that it is by the keeping of the Law that we are sanctified.  It is not true.  They cannot produce contextual Scriptures to support that view.  To get to that place of belief one has to build complicated theological contraptions that in the end diminish the completed work of Jesus Christ and hold the Law in a place of reverence and function for which it was never intended

Please don’t misunderstand me here:  I am NOT saying that the Law is not to be revered or looked to as a standard of righteousness.

What I am saying is that relative to the person and work of Jesus Christ and who believers are in Him, the Law is but a shadow, a fading glory, a weak, useless, and obsolete covenantal system (2 Corinthians 3, Colossians 2:17, Hebrews 8Hebrews 10).

We must be careful to not elevate Law to a place in our hearts and minds that Christ alone should occupy.

What Jesus did matters.

References to being ‘clothed in Christ’, ‘putting on Christ’, knowing what is right and wrong ‘by the Spirit He gave us’, etc. . . . it is IN HIM that we live and move and have our being – not in the Law.

The Law of Christ is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit for those in Christ
A commenter at JGIG’s Facebook page asked this excellent question out of frustration:

Andrea wrote, “But I can’t love because it is a command – Because I am under grace [and not under law]. Do see how you guys make absolutely NO SENSE?!”

Andrea was referring to the quoting of this passage:

1 John 3:21-24 21
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

It’s a great question!  If we’re not under Law, but after the Cross God commands us to love – sometimes referred to as the Law of Christ – what’s up with that?!

Here’s the really cool thing:

Love is a Fruit of the Spirit as well as a command. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Though love is a command, it’s also a Fruit.

Do fruit-producing plants strive to produce fruit?  No . . . the branches bear fruit because they are attached to the vine/tree/plant which nourishes them.  Fruit is the by-product of LIFE, and it takes time for fruit to be produced.  If you are in Christ and are led by His Spirit, love will be a fruit produced in you.  If you are alive in Christ, abiding in Him, allowing His Holy Spirit to live through you, love is an unavoidable by-product of that relationship, fulfilling God’s command to love!

The Purpose of the Law After the Cross

The Law is useful when it is used properly.

1 Timothy 1:3-11
3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God’s work—which is by faith. 5The goal of this command [parraggelia] is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law [nomodidaskalos] , but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8We know that the law [nomos] is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law [nomos] is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Mosaic Covenant Law has become the center of the HRM/MJ belief systems, making Christ a means by which to keep the Law instead of the Law leading us to Christ and us living in Him. Do you see how backwards and out of whack that is?

Some take it a heretical step further, and say that Jesus Christ is the ‘Living Torah’ (scroll to the bottom of this page for an explanation).  Making Christ the living Torah is how some in Law keeping streams of thought get around the fact that they place Mosaic Covenant Law in the center of their belief system.  By making Torah =  Jesus (God), they think they avoid making Torah an idol.  Click on the link above to see how they twist Scripture to attempt this.  These things are a gross misuse of the Law and that for which it was intended.

Purifications, Feasts, observance of days, new moons, dietary laws . . . those things served the purpose of separating Israel from the nations so that the Messiah would be recognized when He came. Beyond that, the sacrificial system gave Israel a temporary solution to the problem of sin. The whole of the Law is to show man his sin and to point us to Christ!     

He has come!

Jesus fulfilled the shadows and types of the Feasts and days found in Mosaic Covenant Law, the sacrificial requirements for both sin and purification, has become our Sabbath rest, and our Perfect High Priest (Hebrews 7-10). What remains? Those parts of the Law that can be fulfilled by walking as Jesus walked – in LOVE (1 John 4, especially vs. 17).

Again, that is the Law of Christ!  John 15:12 –  This is my [God the Son’s] commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.”  

And remember that though love is a command, it’s also a Fruit of the Spirit.

Those in the Law keeping community will try to convince you that keeping Mosaic Covenant Law is how we ‘act on’ or ‘walk out’ our faith.  That the better we become at ‘keeping’ Mosaic Covenant Law, the more like Yeshua we’ll be.  While that may be partially true on a fleshly level, we can NEVER keep Mosaic Covenant Law as Jesus did because HE IS GOD and WE ARE NOT GOD.  Whenever I hear an adherent to Mosaic Covenant Law say that we need to keep the Law as Jesus (God in the flesh) did, following His example,  I hear whispers of the Great Lie in Genesis 3:5b: “and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (See also Identifying False Teaching for more on this issue.)

The Law was never intended to be the means by which redeemed believers in Christ are sanctified.  We are still here in the flesh, and make choices about our behavior every day.  Sin is destructive and a distraction from the will of God in our lives, and has real, earthly consequenses.  The fledgling Body of Christ struggled with the same sins that we struggle with today – and the Apostles dealt with those specific issues all throughout the New Testament Scriptures.  But they didn’t write to the Body of Christ about keeping edicts and regulations of Old Covenant Law, they wrote about issues of the heart and character and service to others and who they were in Christ.  What it all boils down to is what Jesus had to say in John 15:17 – “These things I command you, that ye love one another.”  Jesus’ command is Love, not Law.

Romans 8:1-4
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16-25
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.   

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Based on the above, the Law keeper will say, “See, the Holy Spirit enables us to keep the Law!”  But I’ve not been able to find anywhere in the writings to the Body of Christ that says that the Holy Spirit enables us to keep Mosaic Covenant Law.  I see where the Scriptures tell us that the sinful mind does not submit to God’s law, but nowhere do I see where the mind submitted to/controlled by the Holy Spirit is given the wherewithall to keep Mosaic Covenant Law.  I see where those who live according to the Spirit desire what the Spirit desires . . . to bear the Fruit of Love that fulfills the Law . . . where the mind controlled by the Holy Spirit is life and peace . . .

Romans 8:5-11
5Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.  

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.  

Reading on through Romans 8 there is no indication that if we are controlled by the Spirit we will be enabled to keep Mosaic Covenant Law.  Nor need we be concerned with the edicts and regulations of Mosaic Covenant Law.  Let’s go back to Romans 13:

Romans 13:8-10
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 
  

If we are loving others, we are not murdering them, stealing from them, committing adultery with them/their spouse, bearing false witness against them, coveting their stuff, or dis-honoring parents.  Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.   If we are loving God, we are not worshipping any other god but Him, we are not making a graven image, we are not taking the name of God in vain, and we are resting in Jesus, our Sabbath rest.  Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Another favorite passage that those who advocate the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law for believers is 1 John 2.  If you read the writings of John with John 15 and the above and other passages in Romans in mind, the message is clearly one of Love, not Law; Fruit, not performance. 

 1 John 2:3-6
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.  3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep [tereo] his commandments [entole] .

4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth [tereo] not his commandments [entole] , is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth [tereo] his word [logos] , in him verily is the love [agape] of God perfected [teleioo]: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

“See,  it says if we know Him, we’ll keep His commands!”, the Law keeper will assert.  Remember that ‘command’ to the Law keeper means Mosaic Covenant Law.  Is Mosaic Covenant Law that which is referred to in the above passage?  Why would John refer specifically to the work of the Cross and its result – the propitiation of our sins – and though not directly referenced here, the New Covenant in Jesus’ Blood, if he were going to steer us back to the Old Covenant,  Mosaic Covenant Law?   And what about the word, ‘keep’ used in that passage?  Does ‘keep’ mean to ‘observe’ as in perform the actions that Mosaic Covenant Law requires?

Let’s take a look:  the Greek word used for ‘command’ here is entole, which is used in a general sense when it comes to command, as in a precept/principle.  When Mosaic Covenant Law is meant, nomos is the Greek word that is usually used.  Click on the embedded links for the definitions to get a sense of the differences in entole and nomos.

 Now let’s take a look at the word, ‘keep’.  The Greek word used here is tereo, which means to to attend to carefully, take care of, to guard, as opposed to the Greek word, prasso, which means to exercise, practice, to be busy with, carry on, to undertake, to do, to accomplish, perform, to commit, perpetrate (as used for example in Romans 2:25 – 25Circumcision has value if you observe [prasso] the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.).  There are 31 different Greek words used for ‘keep’ in the New Testament, so it makes perfect sense for us to look closely at the one that John chose to use in this passage and how that affects the meaning of the passage.

Are we really being told by John to keep (observe, perform) Mosaic Covenant Law (nomos), or rather to keep (attend to carefully, guard) the Law of Christ (entole)?   

1 John 2:7-11
7Brethren, I write no new commandment [entole] unto you, but an old commandment [entole] which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment [entole] is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8Again, a new commandment [entole] I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Love, not Law; Fruit, not performance.  And that part about “I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment” and “The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning” . . . I sense that it has to do with the Promise given at the Fall.  What do I base that on?  “The old commandment is the word [logos] which you have heard from the beginning [arkha].”  Jesus is the fulfillment of the Promise given at the Fall – He is the logos of God – God in the flesh (John 1:1) , and John 3:16-21 come to mind as the fulfillment of that promise in the completed work of Christ:

John 3:16-21
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I see this echoed here:

1 John 2:8
Again, a new commandment
 I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

The concept of sacrificial love is reinforced and commanded to us here: 

John 15:12-14
12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.

And Jesus is the Light of the world:

John 8:12
12Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

One other verse from John’s writings that is a staple in the Law keeping cache:

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

“See!  Faith in Yeshua and observing Mosaic Covenant Law!  That’s what we’re supposed to be doing!” will assert the Law keeper.  Let’s break it down and see if John is talking about performing the actions that Mosaic Covenant Law requires:

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep [tereo] the commandments [entole] of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Again, tereo, not prasso, and entole, not nomos.

John is very consistent in that his focus is on Jesus and on love (which is a Fruit of the Spirit), not on the performance of Mosaic Covenant Law.

Examine the Scriptures carefully when someone advocating that believers are commanded to keep Mosaic Covenant Law goes to John’s writings to prove their point, because whether or not they know it, they’re forcing a meaning into the text that John never intended.

I could cite more examples of Scripture passages that those who advocate the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law use to attempt to make their case, but the passages above are what tied it all together for me.  Dear believer, when someone is trying to convince you that you are bound by the edicts and regulations of a law Scripture says you are no longer under, examine those passages and their contexts carefully.

May God grant you wisdom and discernment as you consider all of these things.

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Other articles of interest:

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If you or someone you know is in the HRM or a related Law-keeping sect and are questioning what you believe, a clear presentation of the Gospel can be found HERE.  For more resources regarding the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movements see the Post Index and the Articles Page.  General study helps, discernment, and apologetics sites can be found HERE.  Good, foundational studies with a special emphasis on Old Covenant/New Covenant Truths can be found HERE.  Be sure to check out the Testimonies Page, as well.   Make use of the tabs with drop-down menus found at the top of this site – there’s tons of info there, and it’s very navigable.  May God guide and bless you as you seek His Truth.

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97 Responses

  1. Excellent!! You are always so thorough and take it through step by step! Thanks so much for summarizing this as best you can… I totally understand how overwhelming it is to spell it all out because it’s really the whole NT! Ha. I see it everywhere now.

    I can remember not long ago reading that verse in John again where Jesus says.. “I have much more to tell you but you can’t bear it now.” It jumped out at me in a new way as validating the rest of the NT Scriptures. Paul was the chief orator of that further revelation for the New Covenant. This is why you cannot understand or accept Paul if you are filling your mind’s eye with the Law of Moses. Thanks again for your diligence in pulling it all out!!!!! You put alot into this.

  2. […] The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended […]

  3. Wow!

    Great place to have so much information in one post! Good job! I read The Big Email (momys) too and am considering what God would have me do… I think this is so important (your ministry on this blog and on the list)… It is for FREEDOM that Jesus came.

  4. Excellent presentation of the eisegesis that is necessary to make the claim that Yeshua taught anything but obedience to the Father’s commandments.

    Odd how, when you claim to “define” the “law of Christ”, there is no actual usage of the term in a Biblical text. I wonder why that is…

    • Hi Mishkan David,

      I see you’ve decided to make another drive-by comment without offering anything of substance yourself =o).

      As for there being no actual usage of the term “Law of Christ” in a Biblical text, try Galatians 6:2 on for size:

      Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

      Go ahead, check the Greek. It’s there.

      Blessings,
      -JGIG

    • Rom. 8: 2 For bthe law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

      Gal. 6: 2Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ

  5. My reseach in this subject has just pay off. Thank you so much for the details .I have come to know my Christ even more.OH WHAT LOVE..

  6. Greetings, JGIG,

    >> I see you’ve decided to make another drive-by comment without offering anything of substance yourself. <> As for there being no actual usage of the term “Law of Christ” in a Biblical text, try Galatians 6:2 on for size:

    “Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.”

    Go ahead, check the Greek. It’s there. <<

    LOL! Yes, I was quite aware of that singular, undefined usage of the term. My point was, with all that you wrote, you never found a way to actually bring the real usage into your arguments. Your article was actually quite irrelevant to Galarians 6:2, for you never addressed the actual use. You claimed in your introduction that you were going to "define" and "defend" something you called "the law of Christ", but then you completely ignored both the one usage of the term, and its context.

    "Bear one another's burdens" is nothing more than the application of Leviticus 19:18, and the surrounding chapter there. Everything else you've tried to say has nothing whatsoever to do with the phrase used by Rabbi Sha'ul.

    "The law of Christ" is… God's Torah. It really isn't so complicated, when you stop trying to twist the meaning into something antinomian.

    • Hi Mishkan –

      Did you read allllll the way to the end of the post? It reads,

      I could cite more examples of Scripture passages that those who advocate the mandatory keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law use to attempt to make their case, but the passages above are what tied it all together for me. Dear believer, when someone is trying to convince you that you are bound by the edicts and regulations of a law Scripture says you are no longer under, examine those passages and their contexts carefully.

      So you are correct, I did not use Galatians 6:2 in my post, mostly because Law ‘keepers’ NEVER cite that verse to support the ‘keeping’ of the Law (wonder why ha).

      As for the Law of Christ being God’s Torah as in Mosaic Covenant Law, um, no. There is a heck of a lot more to Torah than just bearing one another’s burdens. I’d think that a teacher of the Law such as yourself would know that!

      -JGIG

  7. I discovered your site while looking for information that would help a friend of mine caught up in this movement. Thank you very much for what you are doing. In regards to this particular post I was curious what you might think of the Lutheran take on this subject. Although there is very much in common with what you are saying there are some nuances that make it a possible third view. Here is a link that explains this well. http://pages.swcp.com/~vogs/godswill.html

  8. My conversation with an SDA theologian.? Whats you take on his scripture quoting?

    Thank you kindly.
    Malo Fou wrote:

    “Observe also the following passages, which all contain the idea that (1) the law is part of a previous age, before the cross, and is connected with the power of sin, (2) the Christian has identified with Christ in His death and resurrection, and since Christ has died to sin and the law, so has the Christian, and (3) since the Christian is freed from the power of sin (and thus the law), we now operate as citizens of a new age, characterized by the Holy Spirit (and also identified with grace and life):

    For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. (Rom 6:14)”
    ————————————————–
    SDA

    I love how you use Romans 6:14, but does that verse mean that we no longer need to keep the law? Let me throw you for a spin:

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    You quoted Romans 6:14 but you omitted verse 15:

    Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

    That verse tells us that we can sin even if we are not under the law. I’m sure you’re kinda confused on what Paul is talking about here. Notice what Romans 7:7 says.

    Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    Malo Fou, if you’re suggesting that we don’t have to keep the law, then why does the verse say that even if we’re under grace we should not sin, which is the breaking of God’s law? This can only mean that there is still a law that is binding on Christians.

    What you must understand is how the law works. You are only an offender of the law if you break it. Then and only then does the law convict you. If you are free from that law and justified, then you are not bound by that law, but under grace. Grace is just an undeserved pardon. So if you receive a pardon, why would you continue to break the very law you receive pardon for? That’s what Paul is trying to convey. It has nothing to do with God’s law being done away with.

    IesuMoAu

    Guru

    Posts: 580
    Date: yesterday

    Malo Fou wrote:

    “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Rom 10:4).

    All of these passages teach the same ideathat the law (while a good and holy thing) was nonetheless used by the power of sin to condemn the Israelites and expose their need for the righteousness which comes by faith. Since we now have reached this righteousness, we no longer need the law. In fact, to put oneself under the law is, for Paul, to submit oneself to the power of sin. The context of all these arguments is located in Paul’s struggle with Judaizerspeople who believe that Gentile Christians should become circumcised and thereby identify with Israel as God’s chosen people. Paul rejects this, and offers the passages I have cited as arguments for why Christians should not come under the law in any respect.”
    ————————————

    You are correct that the purpose of the law is to convict. However, the bible clearly says that this world is in sin.

    Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    How can we be dead to sin if there is no law? For if there is no law, we cannot define sin. Paul explains it further:

    Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

    But is Paul advocating that there is no sin in this world? NOPE. In fact Paul says that with out the law sin is dead:

    Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

    So if Jesus did away with the law, how could Paul ask people to repent? If there is no law, there is no sin. Do you see how ridiculous that thought is?

    Now as for Romans 10:4, lets look at it in context to further understand what Paul is saying:

    Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
    Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Notice that Paul talks about people trying to establish their own righteousness? How does one establish there own righteousness? easy, by justifying it through the law. You see you need law to be righteous. But here Paul says that they were ignorant on how to establish their righteousness. It’s because they thought they could do it on their own. But in verse 4 Paul then states that Christ is the end of the law. That word they translated “end” is the Greek word “telos” which means goal. In other words the text should read:
    “For Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth” In other words, everyone that believes in Christ will be forgiven because the law of God testifies that we need a Savior to help us.

    Notice also this text:

    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Romans 10:4 says righteousness to everyone that believeth which also means everyone that has faith. Yet Romans 3:31 says we don’t make void the law through our faith but we establish the law.

    If I break one of my parents commandments, those laws set by my parents tells me that I need forgiveness from them. If my parents forgives me, I am then under their graces and not bound to the law that condemned me. But Paul says should we continue to sin? or should I continue to disobey my parents because they gave me grace or forgave me? Paul says God forbids.

    Hope you’re catching the analogy.

    IesuMoAu

    Guru

    Posts: 580
    Date: yesterday

    Malo Fou wrote:

    “These passages also explain why Jesus’ observance of the law (or the disciples’ before the time of the crucifixion) cannot be used to argue that Christians should keep the law. These people were Jews, under the old covenant. They were under the law; we are not. It is not until Acts, after Jesus’ resurrection, that keeping the law becomes superfluous.”
    —————————————————
    SDA

    So after Jesus resurrection there is no more law?

    Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    So if you say that we have no law, there is no need for me to repent at all, because there is no law to tell me I am a sinner.

    Now you say that there is no law, however, the new testament writers did not feel this way:

    1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Clearly, the bible still talks about a law, in fact the new testament writers said we will be judged by this law:

    Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
    Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    So again, if there is no law, there is no sin. However, the bible in the early church does not paint a picture of people without sin:

    Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    But if Christ took away the law, how can there be sin, let alone repenting of sin?

    If you have sin, you have law.

  9. What an AMAZING post! Amen, sister!

    I will follow up with saying that the Law could never give us a new heart. It could never make us a new creature and it certainly could never make us FREE.

    2 Cor. ch. 3 comes to mind, what a great chapter there on the Law, considered by Paul, “the ministration of death”. Surely, if righteousness could come from the Law, then another [covenant] would have not been needed…

    “Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!”

    ______________________
    Keep up the good work! This is awesome!

    • Hi Afflicted 4 Christ –

      Amen! Thank you for making that point – it is so crucial that we understand that Jesus changes us when we believe on Him, intrinsically! Thanks for posting =o).

      -JGIG

  10. […] In the last several months the Law of Christ has become clearer for me.  Not that I haven't necessarily understood what is the Law of Christ, but expressing that understanding has been challenging, especially when in a discussion with those who believe that we, as believers in Christ, are commanded by God to keep Mosaic Covenant Law.     In those discussions, I've been privileged to contend alongside some wonderful brothers and sisters in the Lor … Read More […]

  11. As long as you teach others that the Torah has been done away with and yes, by that I mean the Commandments that were given by God to Moses to give to the people of Israel, then you are deceiving yourself and others of the truth. God have mercy on your soul. You have presupposed that you are right and those who follow the laws of God are wrong. Do you know that the people were terrified of the voice of God coming down from the mountain that they interrupted Him and begged Moses to be their intermediary? If God had been allowed to continue, I have no doubt He would have continued with all the laws that were written in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. He wanted a personal relationship with His people, not to go through an intermediary; one day after the tribulation has tried us, those who are righteous before Him will live in perfect relationship with Him again. I pray you will be one of them.

    “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.” 1 John 5:3 Incidentally, John was paraphrasing from Deuteronomy 30:11.

    9 The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your fathers, 10 if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
    11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, ‘Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?’ 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.” Deut. 30:9-14

    • Hi Sarah –

      You wrote: “As long as you teach others that the Torah has been done away with and yes, by that I mean the Commandments that were given by God to Moses to give to the people of Israel, then you are deceiving yourself and others of the truth. God have mercy on your soul.”

      Sarah, I’m saved by the Blood of Jesus Christ, I believe that He is Who He said He is, washed away my sins at the Cross, and rose from the dead giving me new life in Him as a New Creation. He already had mercy on my soul!

      The rest of your comment does nothing to refute the overall premise of the post. And I do want to make it clear to you – I did not presuppose anything. I’ve carefully examined and listened to/read the positions of those in Law ‘keeping’ streams of faith. This post was the compilation of lots of thought, study, and prayers.

      Do you know what the single most cool thing that I learned while studying and putting “The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended” to print? The coolest thing I learned is that even when I feel stumped, like “Oh I guess they got me there with that”, that when I study it out the Gospel of Jesus Christ always stands. I’ve learned to not be surprised by that anymore =o)!

      Blessings and prayers to you as you find your way,
      -JGIG

  12. It doesn’t have to be that complicated. It’s very simple once you stop trying to fit the scriptures into a religion. Here’s how the bible defines Righteousness.

    Deuteronomy 6:25 – And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

    NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE
    1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him,if we keep his commandments.
    1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life…,” he writes in Revelation 22:14. He states further in Revelation 14:12: “Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ.”

    INFACT…….Christ 2 laws are NOT NEW……Christ was summarizing the idea behind gods 10 commandments. He knew the scriptures and talked about them in more than one way.

    Deut 6:5 – And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

    Leviticus 19:18 – Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

    The first 4 commandments instructs us on how we are to love god and the rest instruct us on how we are to love eachother……..

    We are not saved by keeping YHWH’s laws. It is a gift by grace from the son.

    Even during the time of the apostle Peter these fase ministers were going around preaching this counterfeit liberty, claiming they had liberty from God’s law, but this leads to the bondage of sin.

    2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

    2 Peter 2:20 – 2 Peter 2:21 – 2 Peter 2:22 – All new testament. I can go on and on with scriptures from the old testament. Christ gave us the holy spirit to convict us of sin and keep us from sin. Repent, from what? If you love him, keep his commandments. He was our example, If you believe in him you will follow him.

    Keep you mind and heart open brothers and sisters. Love you all.

    • Rom. 7: 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law ewere at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

  13. That was A LOT!!!!!!!
    Obviously you have been busy with these thoughts and I can feel your passion. However, I can also feel that there is something that battles with you inside.
    You know where I stand in this subject of controversy “Gods Commandments” So I will leave “me” out of this when I address with a comment to your blog…….this will also keep things very short on my part.

    “CHRIST speaking”
    Matthew 5:18 (King James Version)
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    1 John 5:2-By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

    1 John 5:3-For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    It is SIMPLE, it is CLEAR!
    Everything else is a big song and dance…..

    Much Love,
    RB

    • Hi Rachel –

      You wrote, “Obviously you have been busy with these thoughts and I can feel your passion. However, I can also feel that there is something that battles with you inside.”

      There is nothing that battles with me inside =o). I’m here:

      Isaiah 26:3
      You will keep in perfect peace
      him whose mind is steadfast,
      because he trusts in you.

      As for the balance of what you had to say, did you actually read the post about what Jesus said and the issues of the Greek that John chose to use in his writings to the Body of Christ? Like Michael, you’ve thrown out the same verses, ignoring what the language actually says. John’s writings clearly support walking in Love, not Law for the believer.

      I’m sorry you can’t see that.

      -JGIG

  14. Hi Michael –

    I agree, it’s not complicated. And may I ask, what ‘religion’ am I trying to ‘fit the Scriptures into’?

    As I read your comment, I wondered if you had read the entire post and looked at the language issues regarding John’s writings, as you simply parroted the Law ‘keeping’ stance. The M.O. of those in Law ‘keeping’ sects is to rebut a reasoned defense for the simplicity of the Gospel and the Law of Christ by tossing out the same Scriptures taken out of context and misusing the language time after time, and then buttressing their position with Old Testament Scriptures written before the work that Jesus did at the Cross.

    Sorry, Michael, but it just does not wash. And like I said in my comment to Sarah, the more I study out the Scriptures that those who mandate the Law for believers today, I find that the Gospel always stands, and that the keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law was NOT the norm in the first century Body of Christ. The Gospel always stands . . . it’s really very cool =o).

    -JGIG

  15. I believe in Christ also. I don’t practice the law of sacrifice like paul is dealing with in galations, or the 10 commandment law for salvation. From what I’ve been shown is that Christ fulfilled the sacrificial law of blood covering for sins. He is our covering.

    In Colossians 2:14, the apostle Paul wrote, speaking of Christ, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.”

    Ephesians 2:15 states, “Having abolished in His [Christ’s] flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of two one new man, so making peace.”

    These verses do not do away with God’s Laws. The term “ordinances” is translated from the Greek word dogma, referring to human laws and decrees—“the commandments and doctrines of men” (Col. 2:22).

    Here you can see in christ own words, these people believe in him also and worship him, so what does he think about that.

    Christ referred to such humanly-devised ordinances in Mark 7:6-9, when He stated, “Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do…Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.” In verse 13, He stated, “Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things do you.”

    While Christ’s sacrifice did do away with the need for animal sacrifices, as well as eliminating other physical, priestly duties and various other physical requirements (Heb. 7:12; also again notice Gal. 3:10-13), the “ordinances” referred to pharisaical decrees that restricted and burdened the Jews and certain ascetic, oppressive ordinances of “touch not, taste not, handle not” (vs. 21) that had been bound on the Colossian Gentiles. (Notice I Corinthians 8:4-10.)

    They became a “middle wall of partition” (Eph. 2:14) between Jews and Gentiles being called into God’s Church. They resulted in prejudice, animosity, suspicion and separation. But Christ demolished that barrier by His supreme sacrifice: “For He [Christ] is our peace, who has made both [Jews and Gentiles] one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us” (Eph. 2:14).

    Now we both believe in Christ and his gift of grace. So what’s the difference. I want to follow as christ did and keep his moral commandments in my heart. How to love god and how to love your neighbor.

    Revelation 14:12: “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”

    • Michael,

      Let’s look more closely at what you’re saying in your comment: You’re saying that Christ divided the Law, and not only that, but that He nailed only the man-made parts of the Law to the cross, is that right? Is that what the Scriptures say?

      Can we divide the Law of God? Can you show me where the Scriptures allow for that?

      James 2:10 says, “10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” Are there parts of the law that apply to you that you do not keep? Why would James have written the above if Jesus had picked apart the Law?

      Paul speaks of circumcision, a part of the Law this way in Galatians 5:2-6, “2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.”

      As for the ‘dogma’, the so-called human ordinances that Christ nailed to the cross, again, what does Scripture really say?

      Colossians 2:14-15 says, “14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.”

      It had to be the Law that was nailed to the Cross, not just man’s additions to it. What was blotted out and nailed to the cross? What stood against us? Convicting us of our sin? That by which sin is defined – the Law. Law ‘keepers’ assert that Christ merely nailed human traditions added to the Law or just the curse of the Law to the Cross. Seeing that human tradition carries no authority to convict man in God’s sight and God’s Law does, that assertion simply fails in light of the facts and the context. Once sin is washed away, the Law is done with us . . . it has led us to the Cross – and there we become a new creation.

      2 Corinthians 5:16-21 tells us, ’16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

      And the book of Romans tells us how our relationship with the Law changes when we believe on Christ and become a new creation in Christ.

      You’re right in the last part of your comment, when you say that if you want to keep the Law of Christ – love God and love your neighbor. Re-read the end of the post, “The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended” to look at the Greek that John uses in Revelation 14:12 and see if it steers you to perform the edicts and regulations of Mosaic Covenant Law or if it steers you to guard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

      -JGIG

      • Concerning Colossians 2:

        In addition to the argument JGIG provided:

        The word “Dogma” is also used in Acts 16:4 describing the decree given by the Apostles and the HOLY SPIRIT (see Acts 15:28)

  16. The self interest in MJ is very striking. Unfortunately they have bit in on a weak spot of much of evangelicalism and want let go. We are not saved so they we can keep the law, nor are we saved to simply be better people. Perhaps the disconnect is a misunderstanding of what sanctification is. It is not a synonym for justification as Rome insists, but neither are the two completely separate. They are two different ways of expressing the same thing, which is Christ. When God sees us in our humanity we stand before him as sinful and condemned, but when we stand before him in Christ we are holy and righteous. Similarly when we stand before our neighbor in our humanity we are no different from them, but in Christ we show them his love. Justification and sanctification, to keep it Christological, are about showing Christ in those two spheres of the Christian life, before God and before man.

    Sanctification is not about your personal piety. It does not matter if you define that as following the law or becoming a better person. Those things happen as you focus on Christ. It seems to me that most MJs focus more on their personal progress and perfection than on Christ. There is a difference in allowing Jesus to make a cameo appearance in your theology and making him the center of it. If you read the bible as God’s story rather than man’s, or Israel’s, story then I believe you would come to some radically different conclusions.

  17. So, What part dont you get?
    I’m just curious though, can I worship other gods but at the same time accept CHRIST and still be “under grace?”
    The perfect set up…….I accept CHRIST, I believe he died for our sins and I have a golden calf that I bow down and I pray to.

    I am a thief BUT, I am a thief “UNDER GRACE” I steal daily and allow “GRACE” to serve its purpose. Because I am under grace and I am forgiven NO STRINGS ATTACHED?

    I love my husband but, I lust after other men, I love CHRIST AND ACCEPT him and so “GRACE” will cover my sins?
    Something just IS NOT RIGHT with that?
    I’m sorry that you cant see that?

    • Rachel,

      2 Corinthians 5:11-21
      11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. 13If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
      16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

  18. Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

    Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

    The Jewish teaching that circumcision was the blood of a covenant. It should be easy to see the significance this could make spiritual. Anyone who submits to this ritual circumcision “to seal the covenant” automatically rejects Christ that and his atonement. according to be Rabbical teaching this would allow the blood circumcision of a man to atone for his own sins. This doctrine undermines the entire biblical teaching of Christ blood atoning for our sins.this is why Paul empathetically declared that any new convert receiving this ritual circumcision has fallen from grace.

    How can the blood of an individual shed in a circumcision rite qualify to place him on the same level as the redeeming Christ? No human is righteous enough to atone for his own sins. Neither can the blood of any animals for that matter. The heavenly Father requires circumcision of the heart which means an overwhelming desire to subordinate our Carnal attitude to the keeping of his commandments.

    Deuteronomy 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

    Deuteronomy 30:7 And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.

    Deuteronomy 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

    As Paul says in first Corinthians,

    1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

    Galatians 2:16* “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

    A man is not justified by his own faith or his own work (in keeping the law), but by the ‘faith OF Christ.’ Being justified by our own faith would be Biblically heretical. Just as clear is that it is not by ‘our faith in Christ,’ which would mean we are justified by our own action of believing.

    How do we follow our master. I doesn’t say faith in him saves us it’s FAITH OF CHRIST.

    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity(Lawlessness).

    These people had Faith IN Christ. They’ve even done many wonderful works, castout demons in his name!

    1st Timothy 6:12

    * “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.”

    How are we to fight the good fight of faith and it not be an effort or a work? Is not fighting a work? These ideas of faith not being a work are foreign to the Bible, for faith is the result of work, and thus ‘requires’ work. Just as movement requires energy. So to say faith requires no work, is like saying a car requires no engine.

    Romans 12:3 * “For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.”

    Ephesians 2:8* “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

    If there was the slightest chance that it was by our faith in Christ that we were justified, that would be a merit system for man. This is not something through which true grace could work. In fact, it would be anti-christ, and anti-grace. For if at all by our works, it cannot be by grace.

    There should be no contradiction in the bible. It will flow from GEN to REV. To think that I’m in sin but can sin once I have faith in him is appealing to the flesh but it contradicts so many scriptures it can’t be truth.

    FAITH OF CHRIST and not the faith in jesus that saves. Faith without works is dead.

    • Wow, Michael, that was a rather *interesting* take on the Scriptures and the Gospel.

      Tell me, in who/what does Jesus Christ have faith? What you wrote makes no sense unless you can answer that question. Actually, most of what you wrote made little sense. I debated whether or not to post it, but thought in the long run it’s good for folks to see how disjointed Law ‘keeping’ thought processes can be.

      Will you be answering any of the questions I asked you in relation to your earlier comments? If not, and if you simply want to pontificate here, your further comments here will not appear on JGIG. I’m happy to have a conversation, but will not facilitate the pontificating of odd theology here.

      -JGIG

  19. DO YOU THINK THAT YOU WILL STAND IN FRONT OF THE THRONE A BLAMELESS MAN by not keeping the moral laws?
    These moral law’s should AUTOMATICALLY apply to anyone who loves another person or GOD!

    2 Corinthians 5
    10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad!

    How could we all be saved and “blameless” if Paul is praying for blameless preservation of souls and bodies?
    1 Thessalonians 5
    23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Ephesians 5:5+6
    5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath not any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

    6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    These verses do not say “If you believe in Christ and have faith” that you are saved! It does not say that you will have a free ticket into the kingdom of heaven because of Christ’s grace.”
    It says because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience!

    What is disobedience?
    There should not be contradictions in the WORD!
    Apply the “Sacrificial Law” to the law being spoken of in Paul’s writings and there are no contradictions!
    PERIOD!

    Once you can see that the law being talked about in Pauls writings is of the law of animal sacrifice then everything else fits together. These people were continuing to sacrifice animals for forgiveness “after Christ’s sacrifice” and that is/was in fact DENYING CHRIST!

    Why would a person of CHRIST war against these moral laws?
    Denying CHRIST would be to continue in the “LAW OF ANIMAL SACRIFICE” for the sake of forgiveness…….that being said, being a “keeper” of the moral laws was following CHRIST’S example to his people. Thats why in pauls writings there is so much confusion about the “LAWS”
    Even CHRIST himself talks of “keeping” the moral laws, is CHRIST waging against himself and pauls writings?
    If CHRIST was teaching against the laws then he would have been destroying the WORD, the law, and the prophets!
    With much love,
    RB

    • Rachel –

      Are you assuming that I practice immorality?? I can assure you that I don’t =o). As a New Creation in Christ I have no desire to! That’s kind of the point that most in Law ‘keeping’ sects miss: When one is in Christ they are a New Creation. There has been a change that only God can make in the heart of the believer.

      1 Corinthians 1:30-31 says, “30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: ‘Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.'”

      Paul teaches us in Romans 13:8-14, ” 8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

      “11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.”

      When we are in Christ, when we clothe ourselves with Christ, we are not sinning.

      As for the balance of your comment . . . um, are you saying that we are to apply the phrase “LAW OF ANIMAL SACRIFICE” everywhere Paul talks about the Law? Well, that’s different. Not sure quite what to make of it, actually.

      I notice that you and Michael have the same last name in your email addys . . . you’re not ganging up on me, are ya =o)? I’ll tell you what I told him: If you want to have a conversation, that’s fine. If you’re just interested in posting your ‘unique’ theology, further posts will not appear on JGIG.

      Blessings,
      -JGIG

  20. I know what your trying to say. I just would not want to live how I did before I knew christ and was in sin. I have faith in him and following what he wants for us. That’s my works of faith. Doesn’t it say faith without works is dead. Having no other gods before him does not nullify my faith in christ. Neither does giving my mind to christ if I was to be tempted with lust. I have faith in christ to follow what he say’s and then it’s his faith(Faith of Christ) that overcomes the temptation. He is the only one who has ever overcome sin. I realize it seams like a bunch of word symantics with faith “of” christ or faith “in” christ. It’s something that I’ve just been shown in the scriptures so I thought I would try to add a little emphasis on how it’s all about him. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

    I believe in Christ and it’s all about him. Nobody’s perfect except Christ. He’s the only one who can help us. It’s his love that’s great, His Faith that’s great. If I came up and cursed you out at the gas station then smacked you all up(I would’nt), would you have the faith in christ to offer me the other cheek,pray for me and love me at that very moment?

    My point is, that if you have the Faith OF Christ, then you could. I couldn’t do the right thing but, with christ living through me I can.

    I don’t think his “GRACE” is a ticket to worship other gods,any image,take his name in vain,work for my own monetary gain on the sabbath day(7th day of the week), dishonor my mom and dad,murder,commit adultery,steal,bear false witness or covet.

    They are good instructions on how to love our lord god and how to love our neighbor. No one ever has kept them all or ever will without Christ.

    Remember, That’s why we where in sin in the first place.

    • I hear you, Michael. Take joy in who you are now in Christ!

      I guess we differ in what we recognize as the evidence of our faith. From what you’ve posted here, I don’t even know if you observe the Feasts of God and adhere to other mandates found in Mosaic Covenant Law. I assume you keep a seventh-day Sabbath from what you’ve written – I’m not sure. If your conscience dictates that for you, you should do those things, then you should do them. You will find no judgement from me in regard to that a la Romans chapter 14.

      Likewise, if I and other Christians do not see elements of the Mosaic Covenant Law as binding on us as believers in Christ, in the spirit of Romans chapter 14 those who choose to ‘keep’ Law should not impose Law on those who do not keep Mosaic Covenant Law. My post details how I have come to understand that in Christ, I am no longer under Mosaic Covenant Law, I am under Christ’s Law.

      That does not in any way mean that I am now lawless! The difference that I’ve observed between those who ‘keep’ Mosaic Covenant Law and those who abide by the Law of Christ is this: Those who consider themselves Law ‘keepers’ demonstrate their faith through the performance of edicts, regulations, and observances according to Mosaic Covenant Law. Those who consider themselves as under the Law of Christ demonstrate their faith through the Fruits of the Spirit and works of service to others.

      Again – this is just an observation. Mosaic Covenant Law is a self-focused performance-based mentality, where the Law of Christ is an outward-focused service-based mentality. Walking in MCL focuses on “what do I need to do to be in right standing with God”, where walking in the Law of Christ one recognizes that they are already in right standing with God and wants to love/serve those around them and share the Gospel with them so that they can have right standing with God through Christ as well. Those works of service could be anything from ministering to the homeless to serving in foreign missions to simply being an intercessor in prayer, or being excellent at your job and being a light in your workplace. Being faithful wherever God has you and walking in the Fruits of the Spirit is how I see the Body of Christ demonstrating faith – and that’s what I see in the writings to the Body of Christ. I just don’t see the Mosaic Covenant Law being the means by which the Gospel goes out into all the world and as having a redemptive result. Mosaic Covenant Law was never designed to do that. I do see where the Law of Christ can go everywhere and the sharing of the Gospel bringing redemption to all who will believe – and that is what the Great Commission is all about.

      As for faith ‘in’ Christ and the faith ‘of’ Christ . . . I must admit, I hadn’t noticed that before. I did find one teaching online that was helpful in understanding it a little more, “The Faith of Jesus Christ”. It’s an interesting concept and one that I’ll look into further.

  21. It is with great joy and appreciation that because of CHRIST I can obey the father! With him all things are possible and without him I would be nothing but a mindless sinner!

    God gave all of His laws for good reasons. They teach us His standards and how to distinguish right from wrong, good from evil, beneficial from harmful. They teach us to distinguish the holy “that which God sets apart”.
    This reasoning of the laws “changing” through christ places God in the role of master in the Old Testament and Jesus Christ in the role of liberator from God’s law in the New Testament…….Does this accurately reflect biblical teaching?

    Christ’s ministry does not void God’s law. Instead, God writes that law on the heart of those who accept this covenant so that it becomes a part of their mind and way of thinking. Remember, Jesus said He didn’t come to abolish the law! The New Covenant, of which Jesus is our High Priest, contains “better promises”, not better law. The better promises include eternal life as well as the promise of God’s Spirit, which empowers us to live according to God’s laws (Romans 8:4).

    Why would anyone “throw out” the moral laws or find no importance in keeping them if you have no desire to break them?

    But Scripture also records God telling us: “‘My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,’ says the LORD. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts'” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

    So God, not man, is the authority on our conduct (Proverbs 14:12)

    When we understand the spiritual principles that stand as the basis for God’s law, we don’t look for loopholes in His law to avoid doing what He commands. When we enjoy a loving relationship with Him, we keep His commandments.
    “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome”….. All God’s commandments exist for our benefit.

    So, I do agree with you in that love is the fulfillment of the law, this is why I BELIEVE in and KEEP the moral law!
    The first 4 commandments are how we are to love GOD and the last 6 are how we are to love each other……..THEY ARE PERFECT!!!!!!!
    HANG ALL OF THE COMMANDMENTS on the 2, They are NOT new!

    Those who honor God should reflect holiness in their thoughts and actions. God requires holy conduct, a way of life distinctly different from that of the rest of the world. Holiness in conduct is based in attitudes toward God, others and self that result in actions that avoid causing pain and build lasting beneficial relationships. Christ spoke of the “weightier matters of the law,” such as judgment, mercy and faith (Matthew 23:23).

    When Jesus came to earth to die for mankind’s sins and become our High Priest, His ministry replaced the Levitical priesthood, which had functioned from the time of Moses (Hebrews 7:11-14). Jesus is our “guarantee of a better covenant”, called the “new covenant”.

    I do not believe that anyone will add up to “perfect” as CHRIST did.
    This is why we are to put on the Armor of GOD!

    Christians should always use wisdom and discretion in how they reveal practices involving the avoidance of the laws. They should not try to push God’s laws on people who are responsible for making their own decisions in such matters. Paul advises: “Be wise in your dealings, but use your opportunities to the full. Let your words always be gracious…Learn how best to respond to each person you meet”

    I’m not here to cause contention, I’m here to defend the “keepers” of the law! Naturally, I am standing firm in what I understand “just as you are”.
    No matter how you look at scriptural writings, the morals of one’s heart will be weighed and I am truly sorry if I may have come off as being a bully or anything else in a negative light……I only want to follow the commandments of the Father and have love in my heart for all of my brothers and sisters!
    Love,
    RB

  22. What does God expect from us in regards to the law? Obedience would be the answer of most. Just look at the titles in your local bible book store: 8 Steps to Create the Life You Want, Making Great Decisions, Your Best Life Now, Start Your New Life now, and Get Out of that Pit. According to these authors the life of a Christian is about being better and/or doing better. Despite their message that an obedient life automatically leads to the blessings of God when pressed, the authors and those who agree with their premise, must admit that we cannot be perfectly obedient. They would most likely acknowledge that it is because of Christ’s perfect obedience to the Law and the will of the Father that we have no cause for worry in regards to our short comings. This indeed is true.

    Christ has fulfilled all of the Law and he is in perfect harmony with the will of God, in no small part because he is God. We are given this word in Matthew 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” Romans 8:3-4 explains how what Jesus proclaimed came to pass.

    For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

    Christ did indeed fulfill the Law, but to what end in regards to God’s expectations of us. Notice please that the Law is not only fulfilled, but that it is fulfilled in us. The common belief that salvation means Jesus’ purpose is to cover the commandments we fail to keep is a return to Catholicism.

    Because most if not all Evangelical churches do not have a formal system of confession or penance they do not see the connection between themselves and Catholic. Their focus on the externals leads them to believe they have nothing in common with Rome when in fact they are not all that different. They live their lives trying to be better every day, to keep the commandments more carefully, and live the victorious Christian life. They live a happy monasticism. The only difference being their mindset. Catholics keep the commandments as they try to work their way into heaven while Evangelicals keep the commandants because that is what Christ freed and empowered them to do. They believe they can keep the law, or at least the Ten Commandments, in a way the Jews never could through the aid of the Holy Spirit. If you do not then you are backslidden or not truly saved.

    But Christ did not free us to keep the commandments. He freed us to love. In Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus answers the question, which is the greatest commandment. His answer is love. We are to love God and our fellow man. We are now freed from the demands of the Law and freed to love. God’s singular plan for us, which flows through the entire bible, is to restore us to the communion that Adam enjoyed with him. To the extent that Adam followed the command of God not to eat of the tree he did so out of love. He did not know God’s anger or his judgment. He was not motivated in the same way we are. It was not until after the fall that God’s will became something foreign to him, demanding obedience and threatening those who transgress it. After the fall loving God became an outward demand. Initially he was able to keep the law, but chose to love self more than God.

    This relationship is restored in Christ because he kept the Law in our place. It is fulfilled in us or for us, as Romans 8 says, in that what was accomplished by Christ is applied directly to us. Jesus does not tip the scale in our favor. We are not expected to do all we can and then rely on Christ for the rest. What happens is what Luther called the great exchange. Everything that belonged to Christ is now mine and everything that is mine became his on the cross. Therefore if you want to be under the Law you must be under the entire Law. James 2:10 says, “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one [point], he is guilty of all.” We must keep all of the Law or none of it.

    Antinomianism! I can hear the attack that what I leave you with is a choice of Antinomianism or Legalism. If that is what you think however you are missing an important piece of the answer. The demands of the Law have been met but we are called to a higher law, Love. I am reminded of Martin Luther’s Thesis 26 from his Heidelberg Disputation, “The Law says, Do this, and it is never done. Grace says, Believe this, and everything is done already.” When we let go of trying to fulfill the law, when we realize that Jesus does not help us keep the law but has already kept the law for us, then we are free to do rightly out of love.

    The Law was never about being kept. It was there to show us that God is holy and we are failures. The law is the eternal and immovable wisdom and standard of the righteous God. Christ kept the Law not to show us how to do it, but because he is Holy God. As a codified standard the law was for a specific people with a specific purpose. It set them apart and prepared the way for the messiah. When their purpose and His were fulfilled so was the Law. We are now called to go and do everything we do in his name rather than according to a list of regulations. We are free to do whatever we want as long as it is done in his name which is the same thing as saying in love, because God is love. While the Jews were known by the law Christians are known by their love (John 13:35). In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus made it clear that the common understanding of the law held by his primary audience barely scratched the surface if it could be called understanding at all. The commandments meant more and required more than they knew. Further these requirements were so extensive that keeping them was impossible. In fact we cannot truly keep even the first commandment.

    Jesus proved this in his conversation with the rich young ruler in Matthew 19. The young man asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life. Jesus’ response was that he needed to sell all he had and follow him. When the man left sad Christ said, it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. I have heard it preach and taught so often that the decision made by the man was money over Christ. That Jesus knew his pet sin, love of money, and exposed it. But I don’t believe that is all that Jesus is teaching. Although the 12 disciples gave up a great deal to follow Jesus, eventually even their lives, he did not require that of everyone. What does not often get preached on was that Jesus asked him first to obey the commandments and then he would have eternal life. The young man responds that he had already done so. Jesus’ command to sell all he had was a way of saying, No you have not and you can’t even keep the first one. This is not the story of one man’s pet sin. The point for us is that the commandments cannot be kept regardless of how successful we think we have been. To focus on our own success and failure according to the law is to be focused on the wrong thing, us. When we are in God’s will nothing can condemn us. When we are not then everything that shows us his will becomes a law to us.

    What good is the Law then? Far from not believing in the Law, Lutherans actually believe in three uses of the Law. We also believe in the importance of rightly dividing Law and Gospel and proclaiming both in their fullness. For one thing the Law is a mirror. It shows us our sin and always condemns. I know Jesus paid it all and I no longer need to worry about the curse of the law, but when I compare myself against it I see how truly needy I was and still am of Christ’s actions on the cross. I see that God is holy and I am a failure at maintaining his standard. This drives me to and keeps me at the foot of the cross. This is where I belong. Too many denominations ask people to move beyond the cross. You are saved at Calvary and then march onward Christian soldier. But that is wrong. My only proper place is always reflecting on what Christ has done for me. The cross is the basis and indeed the entire relationship between God and me. When I follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in His Word and am in the will of God then the Law will be fulfilled. When I focus on the Law rather than God I will be consumed by fear or puffed up with pride. If I am focused on Christ and his doing and not on my own success then just as Adam, to the extent that I am successful in keeping the Law it is an expression of love. Do I choose love of self over love of God? Do I choose love of self over love of others? The Law is still in effect today as it always has been and is every bit as important. It serves the same purpose that it always has. It drives us to the arms of our Father.

  23. Rom 6:1-15
    Romans 6

    6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

    2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

    5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

    9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

    10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

    11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
    KJV

    Every time they talk about “law” in the bible there not talking about ordinance law or sacrifical law or 10 commandment law. The original text was different but they just put the word “Law” in. So until you can see that, it leaves to many contradiction’s. All the way to revelations. I agree that were not justified by the law but that’s how we are to be if we are his.

    Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    KJV

    • I’m sorry, Michael, but what you are preaching is another Gospel. The Gospel is not a Jesus + equation. You cannot logically say that you are justified by Christ and not the Law and then in the next breath say that the Law is how we are to ‘be’ [righteous, sanctified, what?] if we are His.

      -JGIG

  24. It is revealing that those who believe God’s law is “done away with” carefully separate the Law of Christ (which is mentioned only ONE time in the Bible and in passing at that!) from the Law of God (mentioned hundreds of time in the Bible). Why do they insist that Christ Fulfilling the law (Matt 5:17) means Christ abolished or destroyed the Law of God (even though it is clearly contrary to the context) but when “fulfil” is used concerning the Law of Christ it has a different meaning? Am I the only one to notice that?

    The Lawless Ones twist and contradict other clear scriptures to justify their lawbreaking. This is the sprit of the antichrist as described many times in the bible:

    The original Greek word of the Scriptures, translated as man of “lawlessness” (RSV) or man of “sin” (KJV) in the above verse 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is (pronounced) ham-ar-tee-ah, means sin.

    The original Greek word of the Scriptures, translated as mystery of “lawlessness” (RSV) or mystery of “iniquity” (KJV) in the above verse 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is (pronounced) an-om-ee-ah, means violation of the law, as in sin.
    The original Greek word of the Scriptures, translated as the “lawless” one (RSV) or that “wicked” (KJV) in the above verse 2 Thessalonians 2:8 is (pronounced) an-om-os, means people who are not subject to God’s Law.
    This is the spirit of the antichrist John spoke of. They believe it is impossible to keep the law. Contrary to what Paul said:

    Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me [in my flesh]: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    By claiming it is impossible to keep God’s Law they are declaring that Christ can not keep it, the same Christ that is supposed to be living in them, that is in our flesh thus denying Christ came in (our) flesh!

    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Notice in Daniel 7:25 the antichrist is described as changing times (God’s appointed times; Sabbaths) and Laws (God’s precious Laws)

    Jude 1:4 says they are turning the grace of God into Lasciviousness (license to sin; break God’s law)

    Most of the Lawless One’s arguments come from Paul’s writings to their own destruction as the apostle Peter warned:

    2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    Mike Bengel it makes no difference how nice you are about helping them to see the truth they will bar you from their Forum, I know from personal experience! If they could they would love to stone you to death! Remember as Paul said the carnal mind is hostile to God’s law, until they are willing to follow the spirit they will remain hostile.

    Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    For the law is spiritual, human (and human love) is carnal.

    Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.,

    Lawless ones cannot see the Power of God’s Law.

    Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul…

    Hosea 8:12 I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.

    • Hi Covenant Man –

      According to the Scriptures written to the Body of Christ, love fulfills the Law. I’m sorry that you cannot see that.

      And Covenant Man, you assert that “they would love to stone you to death!” Who exactly is ‘they’ and what on earth are you talking about?! As for forums, people don’t get banned unless they break the rules (laws, if you will) of those forums.

      You wrote, “By claiming it is impossible to keep God’s Law they are declaring that Christ can not keep it, the same Christ that is supposed to be living in them, that is in our flesh thus denying Christ came in (our) flesh!”

      Jesus Christ did not come to make Law breakers into Law keepers; He came to make spiritually dead people into spiritually alive people. To say that you can keep the Law as Christ did is to make yourself equal with God. I’m pretty sure that’s a no-no. And the only power the Law has is to point people to Christ and to condemn people of their sins. Jesus Christ is the power of God:

      1 Corinthians 1:22-24
      22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

      -JGIG

  25. the scriptures are clear that Love it self meets all the requirements of the law.

    those who want to view the law as list of do or not what to do do not understand the law in spirit.

  26. Who would’nt agree that love fulfills the law. It’s in the scripture. You agree that you don’t want to steal,lie,commit adultery,murder or covet,etc. He didn’t take away the sins of the world so we could live in sin with him. He writes them on our hearts so we are accountable for what is in us, not just what we do on the outside. So what about having a relationship with him.

    Can I have any other gods before him? Bow down to them in the name of jesus? Disregard the Sabbath day from creation. Take his name in vain.

    Aren’t these the laws you use to show people sin and why they need jesus in the first place. You can’t pick and choose which ones you want to keep in your heart. We try to show our love towards man but what about your love toward God?

    The only reason our churchs teach a separation from the commandments of god(Yahshua/jesus) is because they follow the ordinance the catholic church set in place. (1st day of the week)SUNday as the new sabbath day.

    Christmas was illegal because it was well known to be a pagan ritual. It’s a lie to think because I believe in christ that I can practice pagan rituals in christ name. Do your children get on there knee’s before a tree on Dec 25, and receive there gifts from the god of prosperity. Think about it my friend. The king of this world right now is known as the evil one. He’s doing everything he can to keep you as far from the Yahshua/Jesus as he can. Jeremiah 10:2 – Do not eat the foods God say’s are unclean for us to eat? He made us and knows what’s best for us. Satan is the god of this world and is happy if you would follow his way’s, even in the name of christ.

    Many sources mention 2.1 billion Christians in the world who believe in Jesus Christ (as God)

    This is my Elohim that I LOVE,OBEY and FOLLOW. YHWH/Yahshua(GOD) – The creator of heaven and earth and all that in them is.

    Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it

    Ex 20:8 REMEMBER the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Blessed,Hallowed and Sanctified! You can’t say that about any other day of the week. That was Yahshua /Jesus before he came in the flesh. He’s my King! hallelujah

    • Hi Michael,

      About the commandments and loving God – As far as keeping the ‘love God’ commandments, if I am loving God, I am not worshipping any other gods. If I love God, I am not making graven images or taking His name in vain. And Jesus is my Sabbath Rest, and I rest in Him 24/7, not just on the seventh day.

      You’re equating the catholic church with the Body of Christ. That’s not an accurate picture of believers, Michael, nor is it fair.

      You wrote, “Aren’t these the laws you use to show people sin and why they need jesus in the first place. You can’t pick and choose which ones you want to keep in your heart. We try to show our love towards man but what about your love toward God?” Jesus said,

      John 21:15-19
      15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”
      “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

      Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

      16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

      He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

      Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

      17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

      Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

      Jesus said, “Feed my sheep. 18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.” 19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”

      Jesus was outlining for Peter what His expectations of love for Him were: Acts of service to His sheep, loving them, and service in love for others even to the point of death – sacrificial love. THAT is walking as Jesus walked. It is not in the performance of edicts and regulations of the Law that we are to reflect Jesus Christ; it is in the actions of sacrificial love that we are to reflect Jesus Christ!

      As for Christmas, there are three posts here at JGIG regarding Christmas and also a number of articles about Christmas listed on the Articles Page. Here are the links if you’d like to take a look:

      Christ’s Birth – Why It’s Okay to Celebrate
      Celebrating the Birth of Christ – The Reality is Christ . . . . . (ya bone-heads) . . .
      A New Relationship With Christmas
      Articles Page

      Michael, if you have found blessings in keeping a seventh-day Sabbath and observing Feasts, etc., and your conscience dictates that you should do such things, then that’s what you should do. For those in the Body of Christ, however, those things are not mandated. The fruit that I see from those who choose to live under Mosaic Covenant Law is always self-serving and self-centered. I can only think of one person who strives to serve others in the midst of Law-keeping, and they are a bit conflicted about it.

      The Law of Love, the Law of Christ, turns our focus outward, toward others, making us think of ways to serve and love others in ways relevant to them, to share the love of God with them and ultimately the Gospel with them if they don’t know Him, to build up the Body if they do. The Law is not capable of doing that. Those with whom I’ve had this debate with invariably bring up the ‘fence around the roof’ law in the Old Covenant as proof that Mosaic Covenant Law showed us how to love our neighbor. Um, no. It showed us how to keep our neighbor from falling off our roof! It also keeps us from being liable in that situation, which is also addressed in Mosaic Covenant Law (compensation laws). Is that a self-sacrificial expression of love or really a law of protection and self-preservation?

      It is so easy to mischaracterize what ‘walking as Jesus walked’ really means. Read through the Gospels again with the concept of self-sacrificial love as your focus instead of only Torah as your focus. God may show you some stuff =o).

      Blessings,
      -JGIG

  27. JGIG, thank you for your respond, to be truthful I did not expect you to post my comment. It is obvious to me that you are a sincere person. Many (not all) I have encountered in these forums are hostile to a point of view that is different than their own, but your gracious respond makes it obvious to me you have studied this matter exhaustively and are not threatened by my point of view. I apologize if my initial post came off a little too strong. I will attempt to address all your questions and comments to the best of my ability.

    A little about myself first: I have been seriously studying God’s word for almost forty years now. I began as a traditional the law is done away with Christian but this doctrine left to many unanswered questions and contradictions in other parts of God’s word. After much prayer and study it was revealed to me that God’s Law is an integral of God’s plan for salvation. You stated:

    “According to the Scriptures written to the Body of Christ, love fulfills the Law. I’m sorry that you cannot see that.”
    You are 100% correct the most important thing (by far) is LOVE! Our difference is what type of love we are talking about. It is not our failing syrupy human (carnal) love but the love of Christ that is in every true believer as our messiah lives through us. This is why he commanded that we love one another as he has loved us this is only possibility if Christ is living thru us. Our love does not compare to his! It is not something we can just muster up no matter how hard you try; it has to literally Christ living thru us. Paul teaches this concept repetitively.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Many traditional (non law believing Christians) somehow has equated fulfilled to mean done away with. If one was to fulfill their wedding vows does that mean they done away with their vows? Absolutely not! It means you keep them as Christ kept the God’s Law. Many traditional Christians have been taught this false dichotomy between love, faith and God’s Law. They are taught that love and faith are at odds with God’s law, and one needs to choose between then. They are meant to be combined, as the bible clearly teaches:

    Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    You stated:

    “Jesus Christ did not come to make Law breakers into Law keepers; He came to make spiritually dead people into spiritually alive people. To say that you can keep the Law as Christ did is to make yourself equal with God. I’m pretty sure that’s a no-no. And the only power the Law has is to point people to Christ and to condemn people of their sins. Jesus Christ is the power of God:”Did Paul propagate a no-no?

    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    I think the big no-no is the doctrine of the immortal soul; this is directly from Satan in the garden when he told Eve she would not surely die if the ate the forbidden fruit.

    Spiritual people follow spiritual things Paul said more than once that God’s law was spiritual:

    Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    The Holy Spirit is conduit that allows Christ to live in us, this never happened before. Some of the Old Testament patriarchs had the Holy Spirit but none had the creator come down to earth to live a human life (overcoming all sin) and live in them as what is offered to us today. This is the only change from the old to new the new covenant, a better promise; the promise of our resurrected creator living in us!

    Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    Why is God putting his law in our hearts and minds if the Law is done away with?

    The new covenant changes our heart to love and want to keep his commandments:

    Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever

    As God’s word says we are to repent of our sins (breaking God’s Law, 1 JN 3:4) before we can even receive the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

    Well JGIG I think I said enough for now, I just wanted to explain the fundenmentals of my beliefs (with scriptures) and look forward to a respectful discussion with you on the issue.

    • Hi Covenant Man –

      Yeah, saying that Christians would love to stone you to death for your beliefs was coming on a little strong . . . .

      I did notice that you did not address the points in the post on which you chose to comment, you merely towed the Law-keeping line, which is fine, that’s what you believe.

      To clarify a couple of things: You wrote: “You are 100% correct the most important thing (by far) is LOVE! Our difference is what type of love we are talking about. It is not our failing syrupy human (carnal) love but the love of Christ that is in every true believer as our messiah lives through us. This is why he commanded that we love one another as he has loved us this is only possibility if Christ is living thru us. Our love does not compare to his! It is not something we can just muster up no matter how hard you try; it has to literally Christ living thru us. Paul teaches this concept repetitively.”

      You are correct. It is not the touchy-feely, syrupy, huggy-type love that we as believers are called to demonstrate to both our brothers and sisters and to the lost. It is the sacrificial love that Jesus Christ walked out that we are to imitate – not His keeping of the Law. To ‘walk as Jesus walked’ is to walk onto a beach in South America and lay down our lives for Aucan Indians, to be imprisoned all over the world for the Law? No! For the Gospel of Jesus Christ! To find ways to love those around us in ways relevant to them to show them the love of Jesus Christ through us. The Law ‘keeper’ is not interested in that, however. The Law ‘keeper’ will go into the Church to lure her to keep a Law she is no longer under.

      A friend of mine recently wrote about this HERE. The First Fruits of Zion letter she got CLEARLY stated the mission of those who preach Torah: “The Church sends tens of thousands of missionaries to unreached peoples, but who is willing to reach the Church with the message of Torah . . .” What?! The message of Torah? The message of Torah was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It is HE Who Torah points to, it is sin which Torah reveals in us to point us to our need for Christ! To embrace Christ and then go back to the Law is NOT what God intended! He intended for the Law to be that which leads us TO Christ, the fullness of God in the Flesh. Are we to walk as Christ walked? Yes! In sacrificial love for others, to be vessels to demonstrate His love for them!

      You also wrote: “Many traditional (non law believing Christians) somehow has equated fulfilled to mean done away with. If one was to fulfill their wedding vows does that mean they done away with their vows? Absolutely not! It means you keep them as Christ kept the God’s Law. Many traditional Christians have been taught this false dichotomy between love, faith and God’s Law. They are taught that love and faith are at odds with God’s law, and one needs to choose between then. They are meant to be combined, as the bible clearly teaches:
      Romans 3:31 ‘Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.'”

      You take that passage wildly out of context. Read the post, The Hebrew Roots Movement: So What?, where I look into that passage specifically in context.

      And it is not that we are at odds with God’s Law – God’s Law does not automatically mean Mosaic Covenant Law as Law ‘keepers’ assume (why ya’ll latch onto that covenant over others has always puzzled me), but our relationship to Law changes once we are IN CHRIST. Re-read The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended – that is addressed in detail in the post.

      When I wrote that Jesus Christ did not come to make Law breakers into Law keepers; He came to make spiritually dead people into spiritually alive people and that to say that you can keep the Law as Christ did is to make yourself equal with God and that I’m pretty sure that’s a no-no, you wrote: “I think the big no-no is the doctrine of the immortal soul; this is directly from Satan in the garden when he told Eve she would not surely die if the ate the forbidden fruit.”

      Huh? What does that have to do with anyone being capable or not of keeping the Law? You lost me there!

      The balance of what you wrote speaks of sanctification by the Law enabled by the Holy Spirit. I completely disagree with that premise. The Holy Spirit dwelling in us progressively changes us into the image (reflection) of the character of Christ – namely enables us to love as He loves. He wants us to impart life to others via the Gospel, not to impart Law to others! 1 Corinthians 6:11 says, “11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” And John 15:12-13, “12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.”

      Now before you start talking about how the Law teaches us to love others (the most common argument is the ‘fence around the rooftop’ example), Torah does not teach sacrificial love like Yeshua Messiah walked out, unless you’re the sacrificial animal offered by the priests, ha! There is no comparison regarding what Mosaic Covenant Law requires vs. what God asks of His Body. What God calls His Body to is far more profound than keeping edicts and regulations. He calls us to love as Christ loved; sacrificially. Spend some time reading Foxe’s Book of Martyrs or a more contemporary work, Jesus Freaks. Read about believers who are being persecuted for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and see how what they are called to stacks up to the modern Hebrew Roots/Messianic Judaism ‘calling’ to the Law. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but come on. There is no comparison.

      Finally, what is that which is being written on the heart of the believer? God’s Law. Not necessarily the Mosaic Code, but the precepts that are fulfilled in the walking out of sacrificial and day-to-day love. If I am walking in love I am not murdering, stealing, bearing false witness, etc. If I am walking in love I am loving God and not taking His name in vain or worshipping other gods, etc. If I am loving God I am also honoring Christ as the Lord of the Sabbath and resting in Him 24/7. Love fulfills the Law not just in the spirit of the Ten Commandments, but in the action of finding ways to love those around us in ways relevant to them – even to the point of loving sacrificially if that is what is required of us.

      -JGIG

      • More twisting of the Scriptures. It is clear that you hate the Instructions of Yahweh and all who would choose to walk not by your man made rituals and customs. I pray that you open your heart to the true Yeshua and not this Pagan Jesus you would rather follow who allows you to live in open disobedience.

      • Wow, Brandon. You’re three for three as far as bearing false witness.

        You wrote, “It is clear that you hate the Instructions of Yahweh and all who would choose to walk not by your man made rituals and customs.” Again, WHERE are you reading any such thing here at JGIG?

        If your comments here are a demonstration of your reading comprehension skills, it might behoove you to re-evaluate your entire belief system. In just three short comments here at JGIG you have completely missed what was being said and mischaracterized the content here. If that is how you read and then apply the Scriptures, some self-examination may be in order.

        Every blessing,
        -JGIG

  28. Yep

  29. Romans 5:8-21 — It appears to me, that death and sin where over our heads from birth because of Adam. Yahshua took that death sentence away from the world. Verse 21, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Yahshua our messiah.

    How does the bible define righteousness?
    The sin from Adam was taken off our heads.

    YHWH taught the 7th day Sabbath before the 10 commandments were given by moses. Exodus 16:4-5

    Cain broke the sixth and ninth commandments.

    Notice the THIRD commandment in Leviticus 18:3,21,27. “After the doings of the land of Egypt wherein you dwelt SHALL YOU NOT DO.” Here’s the instruction of God to the Israelites in the time of Moses, but IT WAS SIN TO BREAK THAT THIRD COMMANDMENT BEFORE MOSES!

    Therefore, profanity – taking the name of God in vain was a sin before Moses.

    Genesis 39:7-9 Adultery was sin – hundreds of years before the physical law of Moses.

  30. Again this writer like most on this website twist the truth to fit with their disobedience. Colossians does not mean the Ten Commandments the greek word carries an legal meaning of debt. It is saying that the debt of death that all owe because of the breaking of Yahweh’s Law has now been paid you want your cake and to eat it too you say things like Yeshua died beacuse we broke the Law so that we can break the Law. If it does not matter why the need to pay the price your theology makes no sense. Most of Islam is holier in action then the so called Christians I meet they act anyway they feel and then claim its the Grace of Yahweh that allows them to do it. It has made me so frustrated that I have quesioned if Yeshua could even be Messiah. Most Christians are ignorant of the Pagan Backgrounds to the Holidays they keep and even when you show them they would rather cling to them then walk in Yahweh’s ways. The Law of Messiah is the Law of Love if you “Love Me Keep My Commandments” what commandments? And If Yeshua is Yahweh when did He give commandments? Seems to me these are the same words that Yahweh said on Mnt. Sinai Ex 20:6. Loving God is obeying God. It seems that the writer needs to remember the Messiah’s words “this people worship Me with thier lips but their hearts are far from Me”

    • Hi again, Brandon,

      This post was not about Colossians. Did you even read the post?

      You wrote, “you say things like Yeshua died beacuse [sic] we broke the Law so that we can break the Law.” WHAT? Where is that ANYWHERE on this website? Again, you are bearing false witness. Please provide proof for your assertion or kindly retract it.

      I’m sorry you have questioned your faith because of so-called believers, but that gives you no excuse for your behavior here. Based on what you wrote, I doubt you did much more than skim (if that) the post on which you chose to comment.

      On one thing we agree: Loving God is obeying God. The question is, what does that mean to the redeemed believer in Christ?

      -JGIG

      • “What does that mean to the redeemed believer in Christ?”

        That is a great question! Allow me to reiterate:

        How does the redeemed believer in Christ live out all that is Christ? How do we walk as His disciple? How do we walk as He walked, talk as He talked, think as He thought, love as He loved?

        I think the answer to all these questions is found in your statement, “Loving God is obeying God.”

        How then, do we love God?
        “If you love Me, keep (tēreō) My commandments.” – John 14:15

        We both agree.

        But now, what are His commandments? I ask this question in complete innocence. (Meaning, I’m not trying to start some worthless back-and-forth or trap you in some cleverly crafted trap.) I have read many of your articles (read, not skimmed :) ) and would greatly appreciate a short, concise definition of the commandments Jesus is talking about. Is it the “Law of Christ?” The Ten Commandments? Only the commands mentioned in the New Testament? I thank you for your time and consideration in responding.

        In Christ,
        N. J. Pratt

      • 28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” (from Jn. 6)

        34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (from Jn. 13)

        23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn. 3)

  31. I have read (somewhere) that Jesus affirmed nine of the original ten commandments (just not the Sabbath – He is our Sabbath?) – i’m not sure that’s accurate, but i’d like to do a little digging one of these days to find out. When the Judaizers talk about keeping commandment, it makes me feel tired and sad – since even in all their well meant trying, they can’t keep a whole bunch of them as there is no longer any Temple or levites or priesthood…

    • Right most of the 613 commandments delt with the Temple like where to build an altar ans so on but the others we who claim we are the son’s of The Most High should be doing out of Love. Tell me would you take Yahweh’s name in vain? No right well Jesus never affirmed that tell me in Torah every third year the poor recieve all the Tithe in today’s “Christian” church the tithe is used to build million dollar gyms and training camps which is from God? I fully understand that I am in need of Grace and Grace alone saves the difference is you call me a Judaizer because I believe God’s ways are better then letting my heart guid me into what is right. Yeshua a Rabbi i.e teacher of the Torah said these words I speak to you are Spirit and they are life!!! The Torah was a gift from Yahweh but Christians call God a liar and say it’s a curse!! Who should I believe

    • AMEN!

  32. ** Sorry, Sarah. I will not be posting any HRM YouTube teachings here at JGIG. **

    That also means no links, audio teachings, or videos.

    I reserve the right to make exceptions on a case-by-case basis, but as a rule, it’s not happenin’.

    Blessings,
    -JGIG

    P. S. I did watch the video, btw. I get it. I do. I just disagree.

    • Yes, I noticed that you actually used to believe in following the Torah and have somehow rejected it. I am sorry to hear this. I reject the traditions of men in both Christianity and Judaism, but I don’t think I could ever turn my back on Torah. What made you turn your back on God’s law?

      • Hi Sarah,

        You have me mixed up with someone else, perhaps with one of those who have testimonies posted here at JGIG.

        I have never ‘observed’ Torah edicts and regulations – never occurred to me from reading the whole of the Scriptures. You can read through the Series Page posts to read how I became aware of the Hebrew Roots/Messianic Judaism movements and their sects.

        As far as “What made you turn your back on God’s law?”, well, that’s just another Law ‘keeper’ bearing false witness against me. You make the assumption that keeping the Law of God is keeping Mosaic Covenant Law. For the believer IN CHRIST, that is not the case. That’s what the whole post, The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended is about. I won’t take the time to repeat the whole post here =o).

        And just because one does not observe the edicts and regulations of Mosaic Covenant Law does not mean that they ‘turn their back on God’s Law’. That’s just a false dichotomy in light of the Gospel and the completed work of Christ.

        I understand your position, as I said before. I reject it based on the whole of the Scriptures. I considered very carefully that which I became aware of when Law ‘keeping’ doctrines came across my path. But I always have to come back to the Cross and Who Jesus is and what He did there and what that means for all of mankind. Again, I won’t repeat here what I’ve written elsewhere at JGIG. Read through parts 1-5 on the Series Page and you’ll see what the process was for me and the conclusions I drew.

        Blessings,
        -JGIG

  33. If you think about it the idea that only them man made or additions that man added to the law was only done away is makes no sense.

    Jesus did not come to die for man made laws they were never consider authority by God and nor did God accpet those as commands and decrees. It was The law it self we failed a keep and why Jesus had to bring the law into completing and make himself a sin offering for us.

  34. This is the last post I will make here. It is obvious that you will not listen to anyone who believes in Torah and the salvation of Yeshua. It is casting pearls before swine to try to convince someone of their need to obey when they have no interest in obeying.
    I am only going to leave you with some questions. If Yeshua did away with the Law of Moses as you call it, then when did the disciples and apostles get the memo? They all celebrated the feasts, kept the kosher laws, and continued to meet in the synagogues on Shabbat after he ascended. If they were supposed to only follow the law of Christ, then they were in direct violation of adding to the words of Yeshua. The truth is they didn’t get a memo because the only law Yeshua ever spoke about was HIS OWN, being the law of Moses as you call it. He always pointed back to the law and the prophets and He said, If you love me, keep my commandments. Was not Yeshua the Son of God? Did He not say that He and His Father are one and that “He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me.” (John 14:24). The LAW OF MOSES and the LAW OF CHRIST are ONE AND THE SAME. I pray one day you see that.

    I urge anyone in the HRM who follows this blog to stop posting and just start praying for this person who has deluded himself into thinking that the Law of Christ is different from the Law of Moses.

    • Hi Sarah,

      One reading the post, ‘The Law of Christ – Defined and Defended’ and then reading your comment would have to ask, did you even read the post all the way through? Several of the questions you ask are answered in the post on which you commented.

      I have a question for you, which you can just tuck under your hat since you say you won’t be back: Why did God tell the disciples that Jesus brought to the mountain with Him, with Jesus, Moses, and Elijah all standing there, “This is My Son, listen to Him.”? The time of Moses and the Prophets was passing away . . . the reality had arrived in Christ – He to Whom the Law (represented by Moses) and the Prophets (represented by Elijah) had pointed (Luke 9:28-36, Mark 9:2-8) had come.

      The Law of Moses and the Law of Christ are not the same, though the Law of Christ incorporates the precepts of God within it, it does not require the regulations which separated Israel from the rest of the world so that Messiah would be recognized when He came. Being free to obey God’s precepts without being bound by regulation allows the Gospel to go to all tribes, tongues, and nations, where the Law could not go. I pray one day you can see that!

      I took a few minute today and clicked on your blog. I love your “He is Risen! He is Risen Indeed!” post. I also clicked on your hubby’s photography site. He is a phenomenal photographer. Beautiful work!

      Blessings as you go, Sarah.
      -JGIG

  35. JGIG, it is good to see your site back . However I was hoping to see my last posts and your responds to them; nevertheless it is great to see you back and up and running!

  36. Having read JGIG’s excellent post and most of the responses, it looks to me like we have a situation like the Book of Job. Poor old Job’s whole attitude changed in Chap 42 after he finally met God for the first time. Before that he was the most righteous person on earth, with proper fear of God, but had only heard of God. Likewise, there is a difference between members of Christianity who have actually met Jesus and those who have only studied about Him. As a friend of mine said recently, “When our human spirit first sees Jesus and gets a glimpse of the awesome love and goodness of God, we see our true flesh for the first time.” Until that happens two people can read the same verse of Scripture and come up with opposite meanings. HRM supporters will not change their belief, no matter what the verse says.

    Personally, from Scripture and experience, I can’t understand why any member of Christianity would advocate going back under the Law when what God did through Jesus set us free from the Law. On the other hand, I can’t imagine why any Jew would not want to keep every aspect of the Law.

    In other words, I recognize that the Law of God associated with God’s eternal Covenant with the Children of Israel remains valid, just as Jesus said. So Christianity cannot supercede Judaism, as some teach. This caused a devout Orthodox Jew to say recently that there is no middle ground between Judaism and Christianity.

    But how can that be when Jesus was a Jew and the first Christians were Jews? Are there dual paths to Heaven? No, because Jesus plainly said in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” KJV But if Jesus is the only way, why would a Jew still have to keep all of the Law?

    In searching for middle ground, I ran across the article at this site that suggests we may be looking at it the wrong way. What the author says may also help the HRM supporters see the error of their belief.

    http://www.whyisrael.org/2010/06/22/one-way-or-many-ways-is-that-the-question/

    I think Rosenzweig completely misses the point. There are not two paths with Jews following the Laws God gave them and Gentiles following the seven ‘Noahide laws’. Likewise, those who support supercessionism or replacement theology are off track just as far as those who try to bring Christians back under The Law.

    Christians have no problem with the concept of God taking the initiative to come to man. Neither should Jews because it was God who came to Abraham and Moses, not vice versa. So this is one point of middle ground.

    The following words of the author should also be middle ground.

    >>Torah is God’s instrument of preparing man to receive Him. Torah is God’s way to Israel, and so to mankind as a whole. How can Israel be a holy and priestly kingdom? By fulfilling the Torah. The Torah is not meant to ‘earn heaven’, but to serve God and live before Him… God calls on Israel to love and serve Him. <>that everything that would be an impediment to this relationship was taken away by Jesus on the cross. As such, He fulfils Israel’s calling of full obedience to God.<>Jesus did not cancel or deny Judaism. A Jew who walks in the way of the covenant and obeys the commandments of the Torah (not just the Ten Commandments, but all of the Torah) out of love of God walks in …faith…<< In their own faith, I mean.

    A Christian also walks in faith and love, but these qualities are not our own. The faith we have is the faith of Jesus, (Galatians 2:20), and the acts of love in obedience to the Father are not even our own. Jesus said He could do nothing on His own. The words He spoke and the works He did were done by the Father. Ditto for us because He sends us as He was sent. Therefore we can do nothing without Jesus, (John 15:5). Why would we even think about following a written Law when the Author of The Law abides within us?

    Therefore, the daily actions of a Christian who has been set free of the Law, and who lives to love and serve G*d should not be any different simply because G*d maintains Israel as the center and keeps the covenant with the Jewish People.

    In other words, members of both religions should do as Paul wrote, “Each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him” (1Corinthians 7:18). Neither religion has cause to try to force the other to do anything.

    Notice carefully that I am not saying there are dual paths to Heaven. I am saying that someday every Jew will know that Jesus is the only way, and someday every member of Christianity will also actually meet Jesus. Meanwhile all of us can walk in love in obedience to God and live our lives as if there were dual paths.

    Of course I recognize that this leaves no room at all for HRM or any other movement that would try to put Christians under any written Law of God.

    Herb

    • Herb – my head hurts =o\ .

      I think it’s a lot simpler than all of that.

      I don’t fret over the state of Israel or what God has or does not have planned for Her. I figure He has it all well in Hand =o). I don’t believe in replacement theology. I believe that we who put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ are one Body, Jew or Gentile.

      I think our focus needs to be on Jesus Christ and Him crucified and to preach and teach the simplicity of the Gospel, loving others, Jew and Gentile alike, being faithful to plant seeds, water them, and be content to be patient for God to make them grow. We may see the fruit of our labor; we may not. Anything beyond that is up to God.

      -JGIG

      • Ahhhhhhh well, a little head hurting is good for the spirit. ;-) This is just another way of seeing that there is no way for a Christian to go back under the Law.
        I completely agree with your comments. Being in Christ is very simple and there is neither Jew nor Gentile, male or female, black or white or any other human division we can think of.

        Love in Christ,
        Herb

  37. JGIG, do you think it is impossible to love (as Christ requires) while keeping God’s commandments. If no then why? If yes, then why do you put God’s commandments at odds with the love he requires from us (even in the old testament)? Notice I keep my post very short so you should be able to post it.

    • Hi Thomas,

      Welcome to JGIG!

      You actually raise an interesting question, and about a concept I saw someone post about on a forum today, and that is: Isn’t ‘keeping’ God’s commands simply a way of expressing our love for Him?

      Love can be demonstrated in obedience to the will of God, as most would agree. Those who advocate for the keeping of Mosaic Covenant Law say that that is the best way for believers to demonstrate their love for God.

      Fair enough. In the spirit of Romans 14, if that is what your conscience dictates, then that’s what you should do. It is in the imposing of one’s convictions on another, however, where I see that a line is being crossed.

      Has God always wanted our obedience?

      Yes.

      From Adam and Eve,

      from Abraham,

      from Joseph,

      from Moses,

      from Israel,

      from the Body of Christ.

      Has that obedience always looked the same or had the same set of requirements?

      No.

      It is abundantly demonstrable throughout the Scriptures that God wants us to submit to His Will – which is consistent based on His character but fluid in its requirements of different people at different times throughout history.

      For example, God’s will for the evangelization of those living in Israel would obviously be different than the evangelization of those in Ecuador. Likewise, how God expects us to walk out our faith in service to others would take into consideration who we are serving. As Christians, IF we were living in Israel, we might consider eating according to Mosaic Covenant Law in our every day life, not because we are required to, but because it would allow us to freely minister hospitality to those who feel they are bound by those laws. Even now, if we have guests in our home who eat according to Mosaic edict, we honor that. We love those people more than we love our freedom to eat! We would never knowingly offend them by serving them what they would consider to be unclean meat(s).

      God’s will is for us to love Him and love others. We love Him by submitting our wills to His will. We show our love for Him by loving others. In Christ, that means a lot of ‘thou shalts’ and not just ‘thou shalt nots’. Mosaic Covenant Law was very much about doing no harm, but was short on sacrificial love. There are commands to provide for the widow and orphan, to be fair, but that was in the context of Israel – it was part of Her preservation – a very big part of why Mosaic Covenant Law was put in place.

      In Christ, the command is to serve ALL people, love ALL people, not just your neighbor, but your enemies, as well.

      Each believer must look at the Scriptures and determine what God thinks is the best way to love/obey Him. Jesus did not seem real impressed with the Law ‘keepers’ of the day. They worked real hard at it, and even added some rules so that they wouldn’t come close to breaking the rules put in place by God, but still Jesus was not impressed. Jesus said things like, “If you love me, feed my sheep”, and “If you do to the least of these you have done it unto Me”. We show our love and obedience to God by serving those around us. We all have people in our lives that have needs that we can minister to – the elderly, the sick, those in hard circumstances. Some of us are called to really ‘go out into all the world’ and literally put our lives on the line for the preaching of the Gospel and the serving of others. God requires different things of different believers:

      1 Corinthians 12:12-20
      12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

      15 Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

      The concept of the Body of Christ demonstrates so beautifully how God expects different things from different people and how not only is that okay, but we are to be content with that! Are there governing principles that operate in the human body? Yes. Blood, oxygen, water, food. Yet the hand is governed by different freedoms/limitations and has different abilities/duties than say, the lung. Can the hand breathe for the Body? No. Can the lung reach out for food with which to nourish the Body? No. Their abilities and duties are very different and divinely appointed. The hand should never be limited to the boundaries in which the lung operates, neither should the lung be thrust out into expectations that only the hand can live up to!

      My point is this: Mosaic Covenant Law is static; it’s the same for everyone who is bound by/to it. Consistent, yes, but also inflexible. It was designed to be so, as it applied to a specific people for a specific time for a specific purpose. It contains the precepts and statutes of God – governing principles of life, but also includes a strict code of behavior which was designed to separate Israel from the world until Messiah came so that He would be recognized when He did come. The Law of Christ is flexible; it is fluid. It is no less Holy, as it also contains the precepts and statutes of God – governing principles of life, but it does not bind the believer to a separatist code of behavior beyond loving one’s neighbor AND one’s enemy – something which sets the believer apart from the world indeed! The Bible tells us that if we love others, THAT IS the fulfillment of the Law! (Romans 13:8-10)

      The two (Mosaic Covenant Law and the Law of Christ) are not at odds, and in reality overlap (precepts and statutes) but in real-life application differ because of the will of God for different people at different times for different purposes.

      So, back to the original question – do I think it’s impossible to love while keeping God’s commandments . . . Besides being a question that is kind of like, “Do you still beat your wife” (!!!), I’ll attempt to answer. No, it is not impossible, depending on what God has called you to do. It is not in rote obedience to commands that one will please God, but in obeying His will for your life – being obedient in your calling that will please God. So if you’re called to reach out to Jews and God has called you to live as a Jew among Jews in order to share Jesus with them – that’s fine – AS LONG AS Jesus is at the center of your life and not Torah. If you’re being Torah ‘pursuant’ because that’s what you think that’s what God requires of every believer, then I think that’s error, as life for those who came to Christ definitely changed from the days under the tutor!

      -JGIG

      • What a wonderful and detailed answer, JGIG. I hope Thomas really studies it and lets the truth of your comments sink in.
        It seems to me that the hardest thing for a Christian to learn is that we can do nothing without Jesus, (John 15:5), and nothing we do counts unless it is the Father’s will for us to do it, (Matthew 7:21).

        God alone decides what that is for each individual, so our job is to remain alert to receive our instructions from our Father. Doing something just because it is right and good, or is in accordance with the Law, is no guarantee that it is the will of God for us to do it. God might have another person lined up for that task.

        Love in Christ,
        Herb

  38. did you even read The whole article? The command for us is to love, for love meets all the requirements of The law, if you love your neighbor Then by this, your showing your love that you have for God and his command

  39. Hello JGIG! Wonderful topic. The Bible has much to say on the subject of law and grace but even though it is true that Christians are saved by grace through faith in Christ, nowhere in the Bible have I found that it says God’s laws are not binding upon man only for a specified period. I have been under the impression that no coventant was ever abolished but it was built upon or the prior covenant was re-established if the current one wasn’t fulfilled. God didn’t fail the coventants, man did with sin. Where does it say in the Bible that His commandments are no longer to be followed? Keeping the commandments of the Decalogue is not the method of salvation, but the fruit of it. Obedience to God is the test of the Christian and the lifestyle we will have to answer for before Him. Love, I agree, is the focus.

    If what you say is truth and the Torah was written for a specified time, people, and place what is the scripture referring to when is states that God’s laws, precepts, and commandments are eternal (too many verses to list). Example:

    Psalm 111:7-8 “The works of His hands are verity and justice; all His precepts are sure. THEY STAND FAST FOREVER AND EVER, and are done in truth and uprightness.”

    Is eternity defined by any other length of time than forever? I don’t believe we obey His laws/precepts to be saved, but rather we obey them because we are saved. The Tablets were kept in the Ark of The Covenant in the most Holy place on earth becuase it symbolized God’s own eternal throne.

    What I also find interesting are the many post(s) reference(s) to keeping 613 Torah laws as “impossible” but no one has mentioned the 1,050 commands in the New Testament for Christian’s to obey for Holy/Righteous living, why? The entire bible is a user’s manual for obedient living. If we are to be do-ers of the word and not hear-ers only of the word what word is being mentioned in James 1:22?

    Thanks for your time! I don’t believe there’s anything more invigorating than seeking Him and His Truth!

    JG

    • Hi Jay,

      Welcome to JGIG!

      Tell me, are dead people under law?

      -JGIG

    • Jay, on June 25, 2011 at 10:51 am said:
      …Where does it say in the Bible that His commandments are no longer to be followed?…

      Hi Jay,
      Jeremiah and Ezekiel talked about this.

      Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;
      Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD.
      Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people;
      Jer 31:34 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: ‘Know the LORD’; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

      It is not that His commandments will no longer be followed because, as you said, they are eternal. However, it plainly says that under the new covenant there will not be a list of laws, such as 613 plus their many sub-parts, that will be taught to one human by another. Jews believe this has not happened yet so they keep following and teaching the written Law. Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit, by the Spiritual change within our human spirit that caused us to become Christians.
      It is this Inner Force that shapes our character and leads us to do the will of God for us.
      This is why it is a great mistake for a Christian to try to abide by the Law given at Sinai to the Children of Israel. Also a mistake to try to interpret anything in the New Testament as adding more laws. When we do that we may find ourselves doing things that are contrary to the will of God for us. In order to do the will of God, which Jesus said is essential, each Christian must learn and be guided from within by the Holy Spirit of God.

      Love in Christ,
      Herb

  40. Thank you for this article. Have you read Justification and Regeneration by Charles Leiter? Also have you heard Hells Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort?

  41. JGIG,
    I just wanted to pop in and say hello! LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the article! I am unable to thank you enough for your continued perseverance in contending for the faith. I have referred so many to this site and will continue to do so. Keep on keepin’ on! Have a blessed Christmas…to you and your family!

  42. Dear JGIG- I am not convinced. Paul lists numerous things in which he says, if you do these things, you will have no part of the kingom of God.

    Then usually a list of things opposite of those things not to do. Usually, love based behaviors.

    But no Christian I know is 100% doing the things of the flesh or 100% things of the spirit. Paul does not say, you must do xx % of your behavior in the spirit or you will not inherit the kingdom. He merely says if you do those things, you’re toast. So, if a person struggles with x, or is not aware they are doing x, what assurance is there?

    Many Christian I know just “ask for forgiveness” and continue the behavior…because it is a “struggle” and nothing ever changes. Christianity is in shambles because of this tendency.

    • Hi Blasater,

      I look at it this way: We, from our incomplete human perspective at the fruits (or lack of) in the life of another person can only see so much. God knows the heart. As an example, if I’m at the grocery or a restaurant and see a person who is, say, 300 lbs., I can be critical of the person, judging what they’re buying/ordering, surmising about how they got that way, etc. What I CAN’T see however, is that the person USED TO BE 500 lbs., and has been working very hard and faithfully to lose 200 lbs., and hasn’t quit yet! So do I sit in judgement as to what I see, or as to what the truth of the matter really is?

      The same way with observing sin in other people. Of course, if we know someone very well, we are able to make a more accurate evaluation as to where they may be spiritually, but still, only God truly knows the heart.

      Now to who we are in Christ in the midst of still being flawed in the flesh: If one is truly in Christ, what is our position before God in Christ?

      1 Corinthians 5:16-21
      16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

      According to the Bible, we are righteous before God in Christ. If I sin, when it comes to my eternal destination, God sees His righteousness in us because of Christ’s work. Does that mean there are no consequences for sin if we are in Christ? No . . . another concept made clear in the Scriptures written to the Body of Christ after Pentecost is that of sowing and reaping:

      Galatians 6:1-10
      1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5 for each one should carry his own load. 6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor.

      7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

      Having had times in my life when I was not walking as I should, I was miserable! And I was miserable because the Spirit of God Who indwells me was telling me that I was not living like I should be living! As I conformed my behavior to His Will, peace and contentment and the bearing of good fruit were again results evident in my life. But was I ever ‘lost’ in God’s sight? No, because the Bible tells us that ALL of our sins have been forgiven in Christ, past, present, and future. What is the sin that separates us from God? The sin of unbelief (Romans 11 and Hebrews 10).

      So, because we cannot possibly know the heart of another, we must take Paul’s words to heart about sin and judge our own actions. 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 says,

      5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? 6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.

      If we do see someone walking in sin, we are told this:

      Galatians 6:1-5
      1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5 for each one should carry his own load.

      Its’s clear from the teachings in the New Testament that believing in Christ does not give us a license to sin, yet we are all in different places in our walk and maturity in Christ and must be careful to minister to (whether that be actively ministering to or passively praying for) those who are struggling with sin.

      I hope that helps.

      Blessings,
      -JGIG

  43. Since we who believe are citizens of God’s Kingdom, which is spiritual, I would offer that the Law of Christ is simply to obey Him in the old-fashioned sense of the world– “hupa-akoe,” to “hear under” as a child hears its parent, or a sheep its shepherd. This means relationship, and that means love!

    It is a great tragedy that so many people to regard the Torah, or the Bible (a perfect book, but ultimately just a book), or their religious institutions as a substitute for a living relationship with God. This is possible because we are born again, of the Spirit. One of the bad fruits of the JERM (Jewish-Ephriamite Roots Movement) that I’ve come across is that so many of them question if they’ve been born again or not, or even what that means.

    A similar error is found in the bumper sticker slogan “What would Jesus do?” That leaves us trying to figure out what He would do, and how we ought to love one another and Him. The proper question is “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Once we ask that, then we’re getting somewhere!

    • Golly, Lon!!! I have been thinking the same thing ever since first reading Blasater’s comment. But I wasn’t sure how to word a response, so I waited. Good thing because your words lay out the truth perfectly.
      Love in Christ,
      Herb

      • Thank you! Praise God. I was re-reading this, though, and I would like to add that while thinking and logic are wonderful (really, really wonderful), trying to figure out how to obey Him is the tree of knowledge, while actually listening to Him is the tree of life.

      • Lon, thank you so much for your comment. That is really true; Law ‘keepers’ do tend to trade the Tree of Life for the Tree of Knowledge. Look where that got Adam and Eve!

        Blessings,
        -JGIG

  44. Reblogged this on Valerie Kingsbury and commented:
    This is an amazing and well written article. I hope those who read and follow my blog will enjoy it as I did.

  45. Hello everybody.
    There is one scripture Jesus himself telling us all that the law had its time,meaning it was about to go away. There is so much comments and alot of scriptures mentioned in the article, so i am not sure if it is mentioned. It dosent hurt to see this scripture again anyway:)

    taken from the KJV

    Luke 16:16
    The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

  46. Все что не делается, все к лучшему

    [I get occasional comments, 99% spam, from Russia, most of which go to spam automatically. This one did not, however, and did not have a website link, so I Google-translated the comment. This is what it says: “All that is done, all the better.” Not sure what that means in relation to the post, but I’ll approve it in good faith. Maybe it’s a Russian saying that will mean something to a Russian reader. Grace and peace to you, Annaleskova!]

  47. Thankyou for this. I have just left the Messianic Judaism brain washing today. I want to keep the feasts and sabbath but not legalisticly but because of the blessing of seeing Christ in them. The law of Christ is love, which fulfils the law. And love is the fruit of belonging to Christ. Olive trees bear olives, they don’t strive to bear olives, they are made to. And we have been remade in Christ to do the good works God planned for us. Messianic Jews, do not understand the laws purpose, which was as a school master to discipline us. They glorify the Torah but do not know the God who gave it. They tend to be highly academic, glorifying their own intelligence and scrutiny, and the written word and Hebrew. Hardly any mention of the cross, relationship, love, grace, or experience of fellowship with God. They nullify the offence of the cross, the new creation and the role of the Holy Spirit. Glad I’m free, and back out of that! Saying that I think it is good for Christians to understand the roots of their Faith and I do believe the scriptures which foretold of the nation of Israel in one day in Isaiah and the gathering of Jews back to Israel now taking place since 1948. But this has become an idol in replace of Christ crucified. The former is way less important than Christ crucified. It is the grace of God that strengthens us, not contentious doctrines and strange ideas, or rules about food and holy days! To try to comprehend how much Christ loves us and washed our sins away is a better pursuit for my time!

    • Shaun Humphreys wrote, “…Olive trees bear olives, they don’t strive to bear olives, they are made to. And we have been remade in Christ to do the good works God planned for us….”

      Excellent, Shaun. That pretty well sums it up. A Christian is someone who has undergone a Spiritual change within by the same Creator who created humans in the first place, and loves all humans enough to send Jesus. This Spiritual change cannot be accomplished by Law or doctrine or anything else except Almighty God. Now we learn and do as we are guided from within by the Holy Spirit of God, just as Jesus promised.
      Love in Christ,
      Herb

  48. If what you call the old (sic) Mosaic law is thrown away, why is it that Yahushua warns about a Jezebel self appointed prophetess who teaches and seduces His servants to eat foods sacrificed to idols in Rev 2:20? Ditto for the doctrine of Balaam. Isn’t love enough to keep the entire law as you claim? If so, why bother with the prohibition to eat foods sacrificed to idols, eating blood and strangled which are all from the Levitical 17 dietary purity law? Why is it that there are unclean birds in Babylon in Revelation? Isn’t the clean and unclean animals part of the old (sic) Mosaic law? Why is it that in the vision by Peter in Acts 10, He mentions two greek words akatharthos for abomination and koinos for unclean but the voice from heaven only uses koinos for unclean three times but never akathartos used in the LXX for unclean animals? Why is it that in Acts 21:21 Luke a gentile uses “apostasy” for leaving Moses and “apostasy” is only used once more this time by Paul in 2 Thess 2:3?

    • Wow. You’re just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it will stick now, and on a number of different posts. I have to wonder what you’re hoping to accomplish. This entire site is about how believers in Christ have died to the Law (all of it) and how we’re in the New Covenant in Christ. Many have tried to knock me off that message . . . a word of advice: It ain’t gonna happen =o).

      That said, let’s look at each point in context, shall we?

      “If what you call the old (sic) Mosaic law is thrown away . . . “

      The Law given at Sinai is self-identified as the Old Covenant. Not my title, God’s. And it, for those in Christ, has been set aside, indeed, those in Christ have actually died to the Law: Released/Delivered From the Law and Christ is the End of the Law – Getting Greeky About Romans 7, 10, and Ephesians 2

      “why is it that Yahushua warns about a Jezebel self appointed prophetess who teaches and seduces His servants to eat foods sacrificed to idols in Rev 2:20? Ditto for the doctrine of Balaam. Isn’t love enough to keep the entire law as you claim?”

      In the culture of the church at Thyatira, was it the most loving thing to eat meats sacrificed to idols? No. In some cultures, eating meats sacrificed to idols would not cause others to stumble; apparently there, it would, hence the exhortation to change their practice. It’s not that they were violating a law they were no longer under, but that they were not operating in love and considering those around them:

      4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

      7 However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? 11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. 12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. (from 1 Cor. 8)

      The exhortation to not eat meat sacrificed to idols has nothing to do with Christians still being bound to Old Covenant Law and everything to do with Christians loving those around them – not causing them to stumble.

      As for the word apostasy in Luke 21:21, again, context is helpful, which you are not using at all:

      20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. (from Acts 21)

      What you have quoted is an accusation of those in Jerusalem, which was an inaccurate representation of what Paul had been teaching. Paul had been using the Law *properly* in the era of the New Covenant, using it to lead folks to Christ and then building believers up in the New Covenant – who they were in Christ. Those who were ‘zealous for the Law’ almost killed him for it! Luke is giving an **account** of what transpired, he was not stating that the Covenant that Moses brought was still binding!

  49. In Strong’s NT Lexicon, the Greek word “entole” as used in the book of Revelation (and others) is said to be specifically meaning the Mosaic Law.

    http://biblehub.com/greek/1785.htm

    If we are still told over and over in the new testament not to sin, does that mean the definition of sin changed after the death and resurrection of our Savior? I’m a believer in Yeshua Messiah and I am observing Torah. If it was Satan’s job to entice people with lawlessness before the death and resurrection of Yeshua, what makes you think Satan is now trying to get believers of Yeshua to follow the law? I delight in Yeshua, and I delight in His commandments (LOVE) and the commandments of the Father (LOVE) that Yeshua himself followed. Yahweh bless!

    • No, it’s not primarily used in reference to Mosaic Law. When NT writers (including John) intended to refer to Mosaic Law, they used the Greek word, nomos: http://biblehub.com/greek/3551.htm

      As always, context determines meaning of a word with more than one meaning in a text. You will likely see what you want to see to force a meaning into a text to support Law keeping for those who, in Christ, have died to the Law. See Released/Delivered From the Law and Christ is the End of the Law – Getting Greeky About Romans 7, 10, and Ephesians 2 for more on what the relationship to those in Christ is to the Law.

      We are told over and over in the NT not to sin; sin is dumb and destructive to us and to those around us. But those exhortations are not based on Law, but on love – it’s not loving to do dumb stuff that hurts us and others! Law holds sin against the transgressor, but we are told in Christ that

      18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)

      The Old has been set aside to establish the New:

      5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

      “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
      but a body you prepared for me;

      6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
      you were not pleased.

      7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
      I have come to do your will, my God.’”

      8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” —though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (from Heb. 10)

      We are made holy not through our performance of the Law, but by Christ performance of the Cross. We rest in Him and His Work, and the New Covenant is made up of two laws: Believe on the One God has sent and love one another, to which the Spirit bears witness (1 Jn. 3:23-24).

      As for the Law ‘showing’ us ‘how’ to love, no, it doesn’t. It’s a mirror that not only points out where we fall short, but actually was given to increase transgressions (Rom. 5:20, 7:5). When you recognize that the Law was given to actually stir up sinning, it’s not difficult to see why the Enemy likes to steer folks there instead of to being led by the Spirit in Christ in order to bear His Fruit (Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21, Gal. 5). The Law is designed to frustrate us to the point where we recognize that we cannot, by any stretch, keep it, and it to points us to Christ. If you think you are keeping/observing it or can eventually keep it, you’re deceiving yourself. You’re ‘keeping’ a very watered-down version of the Law as God gave it. Where the Pharisees watered down the Law by adding human traditions to it, the modern Law-keeping sects water the Law down by adding ‘grace’ to it, and taking away jots and tittles that they say have not passed, yet they by their actions they behave as though many jots and tittles have passed, claiming partial fulfillment of the Law by Christ. Scripture simply does not support that notion.

      I encourage you to attempt to keep the Law as it was given to feel the full effect of its intent. Then perhaps you will be willing to recognize the mercy and grace of dying to the Law in Christ and being raised with Him:

      4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)

      19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” (from Gal. 2)

  50. JGIG, Came across this site earlier this year and i praise God (The Holy Spirit)for that as i have a friend who tends to be big on” keeping the law”, “walk as Jesus walked” but doesn’t really mention Jesus Christ very much. I believe that he follows the “crew” from Tomorrows world, Key of david et al. So this site is very helpul to me when i talk with him. What amazes me is the grace that you display in debating those with varying beliefs about grace and law. The fruits of the Spirit are truly being manifest in you.

    Blessings in Christ

    Sheldon

    • Excellent timing, Sheldon. A few hours ago I began preparing the Sunday School lesson for Jan 31. Matthew 5:13-20 where Jesus is talking about the influence we have on others. Everyone has some influence and it is important for Christians to be sure our influence counts for what matters. So, I definitely agree with you. JGIG does a fantastic job in that regard.

      Love in Christ,
      Herb

  51. I have struggled with this very issue since becoming a Christian in 2009. I was baptized in 2012 at a Non Denominational church that is too seeker sensitive and isn’t doing much to help anyone grow into mature believers. In fact the lead pastor once said that he was only concerned with feeding everyone milk, and not solid food. This church’s lack of Bible studies and discipleship left a vacuum. I soon found a group of people meeting at the church while doing some work at the building and they were all participating in a Bible study. They invited me to join them and I did. Just what I needed as a new believer with little doctrinal or theological training.
    The group was full of a bunch of nice and loving people who love God. I don’t doubt that. The mission of the study group was to read the entire Bible together and discuss anything we had questions or insight about. We had food, we worshipped with music sometimes and I learned a ton about my new faith. Everything was wonderful, except the groups theological slant towards Hebrew Roots or Messianic Judaism.
    I brought many questions to my pastors and to other believers but I wasn’t received well or given much attention. No one seemed to have much time for me and my questions and I felt marginalized. But the group had all kinds of time for me. The church was too big and there were not enough elders or staff to be able to help me, and that church was not focused or concerned about teaching theology or doctrine. Their mission was church growth and being a “church for the unchurched”.
    So began a 5 year journey of studying everyday. I attended a Christian University for 2 years, moved in with a roommate from the study group who claimed to be a reverend or rabbi and had a masters degree in Biblical languages. I bought a small theological library and I started to fully embrace this theology, participating in feast days, Shabbat, and eating Kosher. I did so out of pure conviction and never became legalistic about anything. My roommate did become legalistic, infusing MJ with teachings and interpretations from the Talmud.
    Long story short, through the last 5 years I have diligently studied with an open mind and led by The Holy Spirit, and Scripture slowly changed my perspective. Where I once thought Hebrews talking about a change in the priesthood and a change of law to mean the supersession of only commands dealing with the temple and the priesthood of Levi, due to Christ’s priesthood, I now know that there is no categorizing laws in the Mosaic Covenant as far as the covenant framework goes. The whole of the law, all 613 Mitzvah are fulfilled by Christ. They are active still, yet fulfilled by Yeshua as are the prophets. That is what Mathew 5:17-20 means, and I understand it now, correctly. The old testament is still relevant. That will always be true. It is guide and a help to understanding the breadth of each command and a treasure chest of wisdom. Paul said it best in to Timothy. All Scripture is good for many things.
    I now understand the Law of Christ. Where I used to marginalize this one verse from Galations, I now esteem it highly. It is not antinomianism like some falsely suggest. It is a real black and white law that is informed by The Spirit. Yeshua simply used Halakah and Midrash of the Mosaic Law to expound His new Law and show the spiritual intent of the Mosaic Covenant, and through the Holy Spirit to the Apostles finished this law in His perfect timing. Of course the covenant stipulations He expounded upon are of the Brand New Covenant. It is not renewed. It is New. Similar, but different. What really drives this home for me is Romans 7:1-6. The example of the marriage covenants proves that we have died to the old covenant and are free to marry the new. I am now free from the letter and informed to love and obey through The Spirit and the Law of Christ. Shalom.

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