As one who is redeemed by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, I tend to be prone to a passionate defense of the Gospel on occasion, hence this blog =o). I’m 40-something, and the wife of a Christ-following, good man. We are the parents of seven very cool children, 18 and under. In fact, some of the posts you’ll see here may be written with The Wiggles playing in the background (love those guys!) =o). We are a homeschooling family, and attend a non-denominational church.
Basic Testimony
I made Jesus Christ Lord of my life at age eight in a Methodist church where a public school’s religious education program was held. (I know, right?! Like that would ever happen today!) I remember the sweet lady teaching about how we are separated from God because of sin and how He loved us so much that He sent His only Son to make a way for us to be with Him again. She had a colorful felt version of the following picture concepts:
It all made perfect sense to me, and with the simple faith of a child, I decided that I would have faith in Jesus Christ and follow Him. Simple? Yes. And even in my childhood, God was so faithful to me in so many ways. I can remember reading the Bible I was given and God showing me stuff even then. I think I was about eleven when I first read, “21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;” (1 Thessalonians 5:22-23) So from that point, I did =o).
Church Background
I grew up in a non-denominational church (where I was baptized when I was nine), and weighed everything I heard and compared it with what the Bible had to say. The town I grew up in is home to an Ivy League University, so there were lots of students in our church, bringing different cultures and backgrounds to the mix. Jesus coming into the lives and making New Creations of people from all walks of life and cultures was the norm in the church in which I grew up.
Three church homes over my lifetime have all thus far been non-denominational, and the reason for changing churches was because a move made it necessary. Have I lived in a protected theological bubble? No. I’ve visited other churches with friends and family, from Methodist to Baptist to Pentecostal to Anglican to Episcopalian to Catholic, and have come to know believers from several different traditions.
Life Experiences
I was publically educated for grades K-6, and for my Senior year. For 7th-11th grades I attended a private Christian School. It was a very conservative denomination, but provided me with a good education and made me memorize lots of Scripture. The school was attached to a church, but that was not my home church. Their view was that I went to the ‘liberal’ church down the road. My church home was not liberal by any stretch, but it was growing and it was alive, and, well, there just must be something wrong there if people actually want to go to church! They couldn’t figure out how I was such a good kid coming from THAT church. I say all that with tongue-in-cheek, but unfortunately the school’s church was more focused on hair and skirt lengths rather than the condition of hearts and loving people for who they are. Still, God had me there for a purpose, and I learned a lot, had wonderful friends, and overall, a fun school experience. I chose to return to public school for my Senior year (where I graduated 8th in the class), as I wanted to re-connect with some friends there and had really had enough of the increasingly hard-handed ways present at the Christian school.
Following graduation, I attended an out-of-state Christian Liberal Arts College for one year. I learned a lot, but it was expensive, and without a clear calling or direction at that point, I thought it unwise to put myself into great debt while possibly changing majors 3 or 4 times =o). So I went back home and waited tables for about a year. Then God led me into the travel industry. And it was a blast!
I worked for a major airline for ten years (8.5 at a busy airport, 1.5 in reservations), which provided exposure to lots of different cultures and
religions, from the people I worked with to the passengers I served. During that time, I had a three-year period of walking in the flesh, which is a very uncomfortable place to be for the Christian, because you don’t really fit in with the world, nor do you feel like you fit in with the Body. God was faithful and broke me, gently mended me, and brought me back to Him. As God restored me to Himself, those I worked with took notice started asking me questions about my faith, and the faith I had as a child continued into maturity.
Many theological discussions ensued amongst us co-workers as we waited for terminating flights to come in at the end of the night. The religions and cultures represented by us agents covered a pretty broad spectrum, from a few Christians to those in traditional religion to dabbling in Mormonism to New Agers to atheists to seeking hearts. During the last few years working there God did some amazing things, and there is still fruit being borne from that time and those relationships. It was a very where-the-rubber-meets-the-road-out-there-in-real-life-walking-out-my-faith-in-real-ways-watching-God-do-real-things-in-real-people time in my life. I prayed for people I didn’t like and God showed me how to genuinely love them. Over time I was able to share the Gospel with some of them and some even became good friends. And God changed lives. Mine included. I also learned about the Aroma of Christ, and how it can be the fragrance of life to some and a stench to others, and that those who find you ‘stinky’ will try to make life miserable for you. I got to see God’s faithfulness through those situations in very interesting ways.
Active in our church’s singles’ ministry, I was privileged to be there during a unique time. Many, many late night discussions and lots of worship and fellowship times were a part of this group of about 100. I was asked to become a part of what was called the ‘core group’, a group of 10 people that met regularly with leadership to pray for and discuss the vision and direction of the singles ministry, along with being available to pray with singles and plan activities. My home was open to single women, and over the years there I had three different young women room with me. One a true roommate, the other two, in more of a mentoring situation. I was also tagged as the ‘female influence’ in leadership for a campus ministry at at local university. The group was small, but what a blessing. I also learned more about missions during that time, knowing some missionaries and learning about how the Gospel can go into all cultures and bring people from all tribes, tongues and nations into relationship with God.
Eventually came marriage, a 900-mile move and a transfer with my job, due to my husband taking a job in another city. When children started coming along, I left my job to become a stay-at-home mom. Life became very busy in different and wonderful ways! I must admit, though, being the mom of many small children less than two years apart made me pine for the days of working at the airport during a
snowstorm during spring break and only having to deal with lost-baggage claims and then matching the mountains of baggage with their claims when they finally arrived. Yes, we really did have nights where we worked into the wee hours for days on end straightening out the messes that bad weather gave us. And still that was way easier than juggling several babies and small children 24/7 while pregnant!
Over time, our children have gotten older and though we still have little ones in the house, things have gotten easier. Part of it is that big kids are big helpers, and there’s not such a steep learning curve with the new littles that come along.
Additional Perspectives
My husband is a hard worker and earned a trip for us several years ago and we were able to go to Europe (Italy, Spain, France, and Monaco). It was a wonderful trip. We started off in Rome, visited the ruins of Pompeii (where there was lots of evidence of fleshly indulgences and paganism), the Piazza del Duomo at Pisa, and the Barcelona Cathedral (La Seu), Jewish Quarter (described to us as the Jewish ghetto), and Las Ramblas in Barcelona. I’m not a Catholic and disagree with much that Catholicism teaches, but I have to say that we got some interesting perspective on some very different aspects of the Catholic church in history and geography as we traveled from Italy to Spain.
The Piazza del Duomo in Pisa, Italy is where the famous Leaning Tower stands (or leans, ha). I learned that the Leaning Tower, or more accurately, the Bell Tower, is one of three buildings occupying the Piazza, including the Cathedral and the Baptistry (also leaning, btw).
We had the most amazing tour guide at Pisa. I did not realize the significance of that city just before the dawn of the Renaissance. Though the religious influence was obviously Catholic, and the architecture was influenced by Roman, Byzantine and Muslim culture, the forms of worship in the artwork at the Cathedral and the Baptistry are very pure. Little focus on Mary, except appropriate honor, no emphasis on saint worship . . . just amazing artwork telling the story of God and man from Creation to Redemption. (Those were in the Cathedral.) The atmosphere was one of love, truth and light.
The Baptistry was so simple (though huge!) in its symbolism. There is an immersion pool in the center of the ground floor of the building. Trust me, there was no sprinkling goin’ on there! The tour guide told of all the symbolism and significance of how profound an act of public proclamation believers in that day took baptism to be. It really was a beautiful way in which they chose to baptize, and the whole Christian community there took part as witnesses.
The Bell Tower . . . Well, you are probably familiar with that, and its story really is amazing, too.
Pisa, at its peak, was in the running for the home of the Pope. The tour guide described Pisa to be today’s equivalent of NYC in importance of finance, trade and culture. It was a very significant city in the world. That’s why the Cathedral, Baptistry and Tower were built there . . . in preparation to be the center for the Catholic church. Looking at the simplicity of what’s there compared to what’s in Rome, I wonder how the Catholic church may have been different if Pisa had become the home of the Pope. Don’t get me wrong, I know there is LOTS in the Catholic church that is extra Biblical and contrary to Scripture. Still, I wonder, as Pisa seems to have had a lot right when it comes to the core issues.
While we were in Pisa, along with the history of the Church there, we were told of the history of the Jews there. Jews in Pisa were treated well, even honored and shown deference to when it came to their religious customs (so many were not accommodating to the Jews in the world at the time) and God absolutely blessed Pisa for her treatment of Israel.
A few days later we went to Barcelona, Spain. What a difference in spiritual atmosphere from what we had experienced in Pisa! We toured an old part of Barcelona and toured the Barcelona Cathedral (La Seu) and the Jewish Quarter. EVERYTHING there was soooo dark! The cathedral was Gothic in style, gargoyles about, bone boxes in cubbies along the walls, statues everywhere. The artwork had a technical beauty to it, but was dark as well. And between the place where all the pews were and the altar was was a very wide (30 feet or so) staircase going down into a crypt. Right in the middle of the church! From Sacred Destinations:
The crypt beneath the high altar contains the impressive alabaster sarcophagus of Santa Eulalia, patroness of the cathedral and co-patroness of the city. The virgin daughter of an upper-class Barcelona family, Eulalia was burned at the stake for her beliefs under the Romans (traditionally dated to February 12, 304). Drop some coins in a slot to light up the crypt.
I just have never understood the idea of burying dead people in a place where life should be preached. Depressing if you ask me, no matter the circumstances of one’s death.
Granted, the time when this section of town was going up the Plague was around, so everything may have taken on the darkness of the times, but my impression was that instead of being a place of light and a hope for the people, this place had been built to satisfy religious obligation. It really was depressing. The Muslim (Moorish) influence was much stronger in the architecture there, as well.
The other thing I understand better now (knowing what I know about the Jews in Spain and the Kabbalah), was how Jews were treated there in that era and area. They were viewed no better than dogs, and lived in ghettos, which we walked through. Spain did not treat Jews well and they seem to have paid a price for that. At the same time, many of the Jews there did not honor God, either, and they paid a price as well. Interesting how some of this takes on deeper meaning now, knowing what I now know about the influence of Kabbalah on Judaism, and understanding the location geographically where many of those practices were melded with Judaism. The spiritual darkness of the area really was palpable.
I remember our tour guide in Barcelona referring to the Gospel as a ‘horror story’. I was so sad for her. She was an art major at the university there and the art in Barcelona depicting the Gospel was very dark. It was interesting, because on the timeline, where we were in Barcelona was well into the Renaissance, when art was supposed to be so much more refined and life like, yet there it was very dark and almost deformed. Pisa, on the other hand, where the art was ‘primitive’ on the Renaissance timeline, had the air of realism, truth and light. I’m rambling a bit . . . betcha didn’t know I was an art critic, did ya?
I write all that because . . .
. . . it’s assumed by certain Law ‘keepers’ with whom I’ve debated that I’m some Daisy Mae from NoWhereVille with no experience outside of my podunk local church where my pastor has brainwashed me with Constantinian-tainted doctrines and taught me to observe pagan festivals, all to which I’ve blindly and ignorantly submitted! I can hear them now, saying, “Oh just because she took a little trip she thinks she has European history and Anglo-Jewish relations all figured out.” No, I don’t think that at all. But I did get a sense for the history there, and without the Hebrew Roots Movement even on my radar screen yet. That would come about about 18 months later.
None of that really matters anyway, as what really matters is what Scripture has to say on any given matter.
So what do I believe? For my viewpoints on the core issues of Christianity, see the Statement of Faith page.
Summary
I was never in the Hebrew Roots Movement or any of the related belief systems or sects, but have been exposed to them through an online mom’s group where I used to be a member. That group, by the way, was a great blessing to me, as it was for moms of many young siblings. I learned lots of practical tips there about large family logistics.
Over the years, however, there were a few moms on the digest that were teaching that we as Christians should be ‘keeping’ edicts and regulations found in Mosaic Covenant Law. I and several other moms on the digest challenged the assertions made by Torah pursuant moms, using contextual Scripture and sound reasoning. We were unfairly moderated and accused of being unloving an divisive because we dared to challenge what we concluded to be error.
It was my first experience showing me that if someone is teaching that 2+2=5, and you come along and challenge that, and say, “No, 2+2 actually equals 4”, then those under false teaching will label the bearer of truth as being divisive and unloving! It’s the most amazing thing, and I see it happen over and over on forums and in comments on JGIG.
When I made the choice to take a stand for the Gospel, I knew it was only a matter of time before I got booted from the mom’s digest, and also wanted for there to be a place where moms could go to learn about the teachings to which they were being exposed, the subtle errors therein, and what Scripture had to say about them. Hence the birth of JGIG.
After challenging the beliefs held by the relatively few Law ‘keepers’ in that group, the owner/moderator (who over time has become a Law ‘keeper’ herself) eventually removed me from the group. She did so bearing false witness against me, which I find so interesting because she broke the Law she purports to keep in order to protect the teaching of the Law on her online digest (I don’t know . . . that just doesn’t seem quite right to me . . .). I did go to her as per Matthew 18, giving her three chances to make things right. She stood by the lie, so I went to the Body of believers on the list (I had about 1000 of the approximately 1500 email addys) making her sin public. Many moms wrote me in support, I only got five nasty-grams, and I of course never heard from the moderator again.
Who are you, anyway?!
I have chosen, for now, to remain anonymous at JGIG. Some of you know me, but at this point, my husband and I have decided that we’d like to keep who we are private. I have received veiled threats online, ranging from “I’m not finished with you yet” to a few who have proclaimed that they will be happy to stand as witnesses against me at the final judgement, to someone who asked for my address so that they may stone a false prophet, to one serious threat of legal action for something written at JGIG. The language that person used was very threatening and designed to intimidate and instill fear in me. The threat was completely baseless, and not backing down, I sent a thorough dismantling of the accusations made against me, and never heard from that person again. It boils down to this: I don’t need some fringe Torah ‘keeper’ showing up at my front door with a bucketful of rocks ready to dole out what they consider to be biblical justice.
So I’m just JGIG. And that’ll have to do for now =o).
Final Thoughts
My only goal here is to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to help equip others who have been exposed to Law ‘keeping’ belief systems and sects to do the same. I don’t have any beefs against anyone, nor do I have a secret agenda. I’m not trying to start my own church, nor am I harboring any grudges. What you see is what you get.
I pray that JGIG will be a resource and a blessing for those who read here.
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Statement of Faith
Comments Policy
How I Became Aware of the Hebrew Roots Movement
About the Author
Contact JGIG
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A clear presentation of the Gospel can be found HERE. For more resources regarding the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movements see the Post Index and the Articles Page. General study helps, discernment, and apologetics sites can be found HERE. Good, foundational studies with a special emphasis on Old Covenant/New Covenant Truths can be found HERE. Be sure to check out the Testimonies Page, as well. Make use of the tabs with drop-down menus found at the top of this site – there’s tons of info there, and it’s very navigable.
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Other articles of interest:
- Millennial Prophecy – Measuring Unrevealed Prophecies in Light of Revealed Truths
- Gateways into the Hebrew Roots Movement – An Examination of ‘Identity Crisis’ and Related Teachings of Jim Staley
- Tzit Tzit For the Believer In Christ?
- 12 Undeniable Truths That Drive Law ‘Keepers’ Crazy
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Joyfully Growing in Grace 
I probably AM a podunk kinda Christian, having only traveled a little (small church pastors don’t usually get to go on European tours). On the other hand, the simple Truth is still the truth. My only problem, I guess, is that a whole lot of people DO know who I am. Comes with the territory, I guess.
Thanks for what you are trying to do, and what you WILL do, for His Word will not return void.
I am so happy I found your site. My husband and I were introduced to the HRM in 2008. We first thought it was truth and shouted as such from the mountain top. However, the further I got into study the further I saw a repeated message of “Christ is not enough”. That did NOT do well with my spirit. But it didn’t really hit me until I was judged for “profaning the Sabbath” (in their perspective) and I couldn’t get over it. I went completely in the opposite direction searching again for my relationship with God back at the local church. But the lack of trust in the leadership had already been planted by the HRM. And so I started searching online to find out WHY I was feeling like this and why my husband was going further and further down the rabbit hole into Never Never Land. I found your site and I’m SO HAPPY that I did. It’s incredibly thought out and hits every nail on the head of what I was feeling in my spirit but couldn’t exactly point out. I’m crawling my way out of this pit I threw myself into. I would love to offer my services free of charge to put audio and video together for YouTube as I am an audio/video person and had the text to speech program on my Mac read the site to me while working on my computer. Please let me know if I can help you in any way. God bless you!
Hi Rebecca,
Thanks so much for your comment. It’s so good to hear when someone comes out of the HRM – it’s such an encouragement to me and to others who have family/friends in the movement.
Your story is wonderfully familiar – when one focuses on the simple truths of the Gospel (Christ IS enough =o>), the false beliefs tend to fall away. I’m thankful that you found JGIG to be a resource.
You wrote, “I went completely in the opposite direction searching again for my relationship with God back at the local church. But the lack of trust in the leadership had already been planted by the HRM.”
That’s not uncommon for folks that come out of false belief systems; one other resource that you may find helpful is Exit and Support Network’s Recovery Articles page. It’s a site for former Worldwide Church of God members/children of members (WCG’s belief system is very similar to HRM), and you may find that the issues you are dealing with are addressed there. Having a good grasp of the big picture of how you got where you are as well as knowing that you are not alone can be helpful in healing.
Be encouraged – there are good churches out there! Not a perfect one in the bunch, but good ones. Please persevere in finding a local body in which you can worship, fellowship, and serve.
I’ll email you later about your offer . . . pondering . . . =o).
Every blessing,
-JGIG
Hi JGIG….Years ago you helped out with a site on Hebrew Roots on Gas Buddy (Imagine discussing grace in a chat room on a Gas Buddy site).
I am so glad your ministry is still here. I do continue to witness on Gas Buddy. I pray for your ministry.
Yes, I remember! Thanks for your prayers, mexicomaria, they are much appreciated!
Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG
I am so grateful to have found your site. My husband became consumed with the HRM a little over a year ago (I had never even heard of it before then) and our family and marriage have been steadily deteriorating ever since. My adult stepchildren have almost completely pulled away from us, as has my husband’s family (since we no longer celebrate any type of “pagan” holidays). I’m devastated and saddened at the loss of our former life as a “Christian family” and I’m now being force-fed all of the Hebrew Roots doctrine. Although when my husband was first “called out” (as he calls his conversion from Christianity to Hebrew Roots) he told me he would not force me to follow in his beliefs but that he hoped I would seek out the truth and ‘see the light’ for myself so to speak, he has since basically forbade me from attending any type of Christian bible studies or fellowship, and I’m guilt-tripped into attending his Torah Fellowship group from time to timem. I’ve not been in a church in about a year and a half and I’ve honestly never felt more lonely and spiritually starved for Christian fellowship in my entire life. I’ve searched the internet for support or encouragement on how to deal with the HRM and your site has been a true answer to prayer and a blessing. I don’t suppose there is any type of online support group for non-HRM spouses who are trying to survive a marriage with a HRM spouse?
Thank you for all you do!
This is where Im at right now. Im coming out of HRM but my husband is adamently HRM and its causing conflict and yes children are involved too. I too wonder how to ‘make it work’ in a way that is lobing to my husband but also allows me the personal freedom i need to follow God how I feel right.
I am finding your blog so timely at this point in my life. A family member is involved in the HRM and I didn’t realize all it entailed. Also, I just remarried and am in “discussion” with my husband about the necessity of “works” as part of salvation. He has just written a book on his viewpoint. I really enjoyed your law enforcement article. It is hard for me to debate these things, but in my heart I believe that Christ is enough! Thanks for laying out so much truth!
KB and Teresa,
There is a new support group available online for those with friends/family in the HRM. It’s a private group; email me at joyfullygrowingingrace @ gmail dot com and I’ll send you the info.
Thanks for your kind words, ladies. I’m glad you’ve found JGIG to be a resource – I’m just sorry you have a need to be here =o(.
You’ll both be in my prayers.
Grace and peace in our Lord Jesus Christ,
-JGIG
Yes please, may I have this too? :)
Yes, I will send you the info. I thought of this for you earlier today and was going to suggest it =o). I’ll send it in an email a little later. There are several there who are in similar situations.
This blog is so interesting. I knew nothing about the Hebrew Roots Movement….until today. My son, who is newly married posted a youtube video for me of a guy by the name of Jim Staley. He said the video was showing him how to get rid of evil spirits in his house. I searched his name and your blog was one of the sites my search listed. Now I learn, there is a movement….another movement. I can’t get over how desperately creative people get! Like we need another one! Enjoyed your testimony/story/journey. I’ll be checkin’ in.
Thanks for the kind words =o).
Jim Staley. Ugh. So much wrong there. If you’re on Facebook, you may want to take a look at this post, which deals a bit with Staley behaving as a shaman: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=357968937606460&id=248822244000
Stay tuned – I’m proofing a page regarding some key Staley teachings that will be available as a resource here at JGIG really soon, hopefully within the next couple of days. It will go up as both a post and be available as a page on the Articles page. It’s ridiculously long (as are many of Staley’s teachings), so is taking a long time to proofread and make sure all my embedded links and references are in order.
Praying that your son has a quickly-passing fascination with Staley and doesn’t get sucked in.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Blessings to you Sister for this site…I,like the women commented above, am sooo glad to have found your site. I have family members who are involved with HRM…and it is spreading throughout the family.
I am using your site to gather reliable and trustworthy info and share the articles on my Facebook page in hopes that “others” will see them and find help.
Thank you for your careful and non-judgmental writings and articles.
Please don’t stop.
To Jesus be all the praise!
Thank you for your kind words, Sandra. You’ve paid some high compliments, and I thank you. The vision for this site has been exactly as you describe; to be a reliable resource for believers (and those in the HRM) to be able to sort out the issues when the HRM crosses their paths.
My prayers go out to you and your family. Unfortunately you’re not alone.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Just wanted to chime in from a man’s perspective. My wife has gotten sucked into the HRM, or Torah Observant movement, in the last year, and all I can say is that the pain is just as deep in this man’s heart as it is in your hearts, ladies. Thank God for His grace through Jesus Christ alone which carries me and all of us along. This experience has made it blatantly obvious that this is the work of the enemy, who knows how to hit us where it will be the most excruciatingly painful. You all will be in my prayers, as I hope I and my wife will be in yours.
UGANUL, So sorry to hear about your wife and the angst the HRM/TOM has caused in your family. My prayers go out to you and others in your situation, and you all those affected by the HRM/TOM are why I do what I do.
Perhaps you have already seen it, but the following is an article I wrote here that many with family/friends in the HRM/TOM have found to be an encouragement:
Believers in the Hebrew Roots Movement: Are They Lost?
Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG
I really enjoyed reading your site. I find it will be a valuable tool in defending JESUS against the Hebraic Roots movement that has become so pervasive. Thank you for all of your hard work.
What is your name?
SO, You’re travelling on YOUR Greasy Grace Gravy Train???
How can you be a SET-APART Peoples, if You’re Doing what the NATIONS Are Doing?
EATING UNCLEAN MEATS, PORK. B/C YOU SAY *GRACE?*
Who gave YOU, the Authority to Call that which is UNCLEAN, CLEAN?
YOU ARE CELEBRATING PAGAN FEAST DAYS, ISHTAR, AND THE WINTER SOLSTICE DEDICATED TO, ZEUS AND A MULTITUDE OF GREEK AND ROMAN DEITIES..
YOU’LL ARE DECEIVED BIG TIME!!!
TORAH IS ALIVE AND WELL.. IT’S THE BENCHMARK OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Romans 3:31King James Version (KJV)
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1 John 2:3-7King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
Hi Shirley, welcome to JGIG =o).
I’ll respond to your full comment later; just wanted to let you know that I got it. I’m enjoying a quiet night and will respond later.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
Okay, I’m back =o).
You wrote, “What is your name?”
If you read all the way to the bottom of the ‘About the Author’ article, you know my name. Perhaps you did not read it all?
You also wrote, “SO, You’re travelling on YOUR Greasy Grace Gravy Train???”
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (from Jn. 1)
Are you calling Christ Jesus a “Greasy Grace Gravy Train???”
You wrote, “How can you be a SET-APART Peoples, if You’re Doing what the NATIONS Are Doing? YOU ARE CELEBRATING PAGAN FEAST DAYS, ISHTAR, AND THE WINTER SOLSTICE DEDICATED TO, ZEUS AND A MULTITUDE OF GREEK AND ROMAN DEITIES..YOU’LL ARE DECEIVED BIG TIME!!!”
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (from Jn. 13)
Muslims don’t eat pork or celebrate the Birth or Resurrection of Christ; they’re as ‘set apart from the world’ as you are!
We who are in Christ are not called to be isolated from the world by dietary laws; we are not only free to, but called to go out into all the world to preach the Good News of the Death, Resurrection, Ascension, and Perfect Forever High Priesthood of Christ Jesus resulting in the gifts of complete Forgiveness, Righteousness, and New Life in Christ for all who believe.
As for your perception that I celebrate pagan feast days, no. It simply is not so. My guess is that you’ve swallowed a bunch of ‘research’ from A. Hisslop’s “The Two Babylons“. I’ve read it. I’ve checked the claims. His research makes wild jumps in logic and comes to a multitude of false conclusions. A great resource with which to examine Hisslop’s claims is Ralph Woodrow’s “The Babylon Connection?”
You wrote, “EATING UNCLEAN MEATS, PORK. B/C YOU SAY *GRACE?* Who gave YOU, the Authority to Call that which is UNCLEAN, CLEAN?”
No, I’m free from dietary laws because 1) I’m a Gentile who was never given the food laws, and 2) Even if I were a Jew who was given the food laws, in Christ, I have died to the Law (Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21)
You wrote, “TORAH IS ALIVE AND WELL.. IT’S THE BENCHMARK OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
Torah still exists for the purpose for which it was given – to point out and stir up sin and then to point to Christ, Who measured up to the benchmark of the Law on our behalf. We are acceptable to God not on the basis of our obedience to the Law, but because we put our faith in Christ Who was perfectly obedient on our behalf because we could not be:
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (from Rom. 5)
Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness; the Law stirs up sinning:
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (from Rom. 5)
5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. (from Rom. 7)
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. (From Tit. 2)
So, dear Shirley, I choose Grace, which teaches me Godliness, over Law which stirs up sinning.
And just a note about what you term, “Greasy Grace”:
Every Torah pursuant person I’ve ever interacted with preaches “Greasy Law”. Tullian Tchividjian puts it this way when he was asked the following question, “In what ways is Grace most commonly misunderstood today?”:
His answer: “I think the main way that Grace is misunderstood today is when people confuse it with cheapened Law.
“Think of the first and greatest commandment: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. Or think of Jesus’ crushing line in the Sermon on the Mount, ‘You therefore must be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect.’
“Grace, for many people, is the reduction of God’s expectations of us.
“Because of Grace, we think, we just need to try hard. Grace becomes this Law-cheapening agent, attempting to make the Law easier to follow.
“So ‘love the Lord with all of your heart’ becomes ‘try to love God more than your work’. ‘Be perfect’ gets cheapened into ‘Just do your best’.
“That’s really the problem.
“Now, doing this, when we do this, and we do, this is what they were guilty of, this is what we are guilty of, doing this enables us to do what we desperately want to do: to think that we’re better than we actually are. There’s not a person on the planet that doesn’t desperately want to think that they’re better than they are.
“Which is why we’re constantly comparing ourselves to other people. Constantly taking an inventory of other people so that we can measure ourselves and we feel really, really, really good about ourselves when we take an inventory of someone whose spirituality or giftedness or looks or whatever aren’t nearly as good as ours.
“And we feel really, really bad about ourselves if we take an inventory of someone’s spirituality or gifts or looks or financial situation or whatever and we’re much worse than they are; they’re better than us.
“This is what happens – each and every one of us desperately, in, in other words, we actually think we can find life and freedom and salvation; we actually think we can find these things if we come to the conclusion, or if we convince ourselves that we’re better than we are. And one of the ways that we do that as people inside the Church is to cheapen God’s demands.
“‘Be perfect’ is ‘Just try your best.’
“Grace becomes nothing more and nothing less than ‘Just, just try your best, ya know? God will sweep the rest under the rug, He’s a really nice Guy, He’ll do, uh, you know, you do your best and God will do the rest.’ That sort of thing.”
And that’s what Torah pursuant folks do; ‘just try your best’ according the to Law (which actually stirs up sinning), claiming ‘grace’ will cover the rest, instead of living in Grace and letting Him teach us and produce His Fruit through us.
You’re preaching Greasy Law!
If one lives according to the Law, one must obey it all, or they obey none of it (Gal. 3:10, James 2:10) and according to the Scriptures, the Law requires complete, 100% obedience for the blessings in the Law (which are all carnal, btw) and carries penalties for disobedience and is, in the era of the New Covenant, called the ministry of death (2 Cor. 3). Yet you never hear Torah folk preaching complete, 100% obedience, but they pick and choose the ‘keepable’, obvious laws: Feast and Sabbath keeping, dietary laws, tzitzit wearing . . . they totally ignore most of the other Laws, saying that they can’t be ‘kept’ in ‘exile’.
Well, there is no exile, because the Old Covenant is obsolete in Christ – He is the High Priest of the New Covenant ratified in His Blood. Relationship with God is attained through, and maintained through, the Work of Christ and being in Him.
The next thing that Torah folk will predictably come back with, is something like this: “So is it okay to have sex with animals now, murder, and steal?”
As if the believer is left in some sort of a moral vacuum when they come into Christ! I don’t know about you, but because I’m in Christ, I’m a New Creation, and as such have no desire to have sex with animals, murder, or steal. Funny how Torah folk come out with the more ‘offensive’ sins but fail to mention sins of slander and divisiveness, which you are guilty of on this very page.
I think that will about do it. You may want to read a bit more here before you go making accusations as you have. I have not come to the conclusions I have willy nilly or without much thought and prayer. I’ll be praying that the Holy Spirit reveal His New Covenant to you.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
How is your son, JGIG?
He is doing well, thanks =o).
For those who don’t know, one of our children was diagnosed in the Summer of ’15 at age 11 with metastatic brain and spine cancer. He was a high risk case and the prognosis was grim where he was diagnosed (a world-class children’s hospital), but he was accepted into a study and was treated at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital (an AMAZING place!), and has done very well. He completed treatment this past summer and goes back for quarterly scans and some other tests for the next 2-3 years, then every six months up to 5 years, then annually after that. His first quarterly scans post-treatment were clear (except for some scar tissue which they keep a close eye on), and we go back in a couple weeks for his second set of post-treatment scans. We’re trusting God that his healing is complete and enduring and that all is well \o/.
I’ll write a post here at some point about why I’ve not posted here in so long – it’s a combination of graduations (we have seven children), our son’s illness, and preparing for a 1000 mile move. Lots on our plate – I look forward to getting back here at some point – when life settles down a bit! I’m so thankful that folks continue to find JGIG as a helpful resource.
Thanks so much for asking about our son and we are grateful for all who have been praying for and continue to pray for him. He is still recovering from the treatment itself, but is doing very well!
I stumbled upon your site while searching for articles or books on the Hebrew Roots movement and let me tell you, you’ve blessed me enormously. I prefer reading from an actual book rather off of a screen, so let me encourage you to compile your posts into a book. Do you know of any books (other than the Bible) that exhaustively refute this pernicious heresy? Thank you again for your time and research.
Thanks for the kind words – so glad you’ve found JGIG to be a resource and blessing.
A book may be in the future, but not any time soon. You may notice I have not actively written here in quite some time. We have a large family and recently moved over 900 miles along with a health crisis for one of our children a couple of years ago (he’s doing great now \o/). We’ve been catching up on life and are very much still in the process of settling into our new home. Getting some more content up at JGIG is close to my heart, but impossible schedule wise presently.